Getting into Frank Zappa

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by englishbob, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC Man
    My very first post in this thread makes this clear.
     
  2. jawaka1000

    jawaka1000 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Netherlands
    Post 21
     
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  3. vegard martinsen

    vegard martinsen Member

    Location:
    Oslo Norway
    Recently, I listened to Sleep Dirt, Studio Tan and Orcestral Favourites (I bought them as three vinyl LPs when they were released). Sleep Dirt is the most enjoyable of them.
     
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  4. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Sheer deduction, my friend.

    Check this out:

    Unreleased Records

    On top of that, we have physical proof of Frank's MO with Lumpy Money, The Crux Of The Biscuit, and Meat Light. Track listings always changed. Albums always changed. Frank was never consistent.

    Which of your sources told you that Studio Tan and Sleep Dirt were constructed in 1974? Do they have documentation, written or otherwise?
     
  5. WonkyWilly

    WonkyWilly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise, PA
    As I pointed out, "Studio Tan" existed as early as mid-1975, when test pressings were made. It was the "follow up" to OSFA that he mentions in the OSFA liners. The tracklisting and mixes are identical, with the exception of "200 Years Old" being replaced by "Lemme Take You To The Beach".

    "Orchestral Favorites" was also conceived in 1975, though it went through some revisions.

    "Sleep Dirt" was conceived around the same time as ZINY, and was pretty much originally the second half of "Zoot Allures".

    So I wouldn't say that any of these songs were "floating around". He had plans for them right from the start, and pretty much carried them out (in his own way).
     
  6. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC Man
    It's pretty impossible for me to rank Zappa albums, but as often as anything else, I've listed Studio Tan as my #1.
     
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  7. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC Man
    Oy vey.
     
  8. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    This is all that I could find that I thought was relevant:

    "I believe that Zappa only concocted the combined album story in order to have a good excuse to broadcast all of that material on the radio when he was pissed off at Warner Bros."​

    I find this statement weird because it makes it sound like Frank never created a Läther album and never intended it to be released as a four record box set. Yet, when I suggested that is what you said, you denied it. Sorry, but you are confusing me.

    We know there was a test pressing and there was a master tape in Frank's vault that was used to create the CD. You make it sound like Frank created this as a radio program just to piss off Warner Bros. If that's what you believe, well, okay. People believe crazier stuff than that.
     
  9. WonkyWilly

    WonkyWilly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise, PA
    I'm just assuming when it comes to the other 3 albums, because 2 of them existed in their near-final form as early as 1975. Didn't Frank hand all 4 of them in at the same time too?

    Regardless, his comments on the box make it clear that ZINY was conceived before Lather.
     
  10. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Ah. So, we're both right. There was a Studio Tan in 1975, but then he changed it before delivering it to WB.

    I stated this before.

    I only know of "Filthy Habits" and "Sleep Dirt" being part of the second half of Zoot Allures. I never heard about the rest.

    Exactly. He always started with a framework, but always tweaked it.
     
  11. Marc Perman

    Marc Perman Forum Resident

    Location:
    West of the Hudson
    I want to dislike Sheik Yerbouti for the juvenile lyrics but musically it’s a great album. The original LPs sound phenomenal.
     
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  12. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    He did.

    I think only Gail really disputed this.
     
  13. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    "Punky's Whips" has some of the stupidist lyrics on the planet, but I love the music. I even like the vocal melody of "He's a little fond of chiffon in a wrist array."

    So, I sing along regardless of how stupid it is.
     
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  14. WonkyWilly

    WonkyWilly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise, PA
    This only came to light recently when a test pressing dated April 1975 surfaced. Though untitled, it is identical to the final "Studio Tan" album, but with one song switched out because it wound up on "Bongo Fury" (though in edited form). The complete "200 Years Old" can be found on Zappateers, taken from this test pressing.
     
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  15. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC Man
    This is turing into one of those things where we try to figure out how to read.

    You wrote this: "Isn't this what you are suggesting? We know Frank created Läther (nobody else did), yet you somehow suggest he didn't intend to."

    Obviously he intended to create Lather, since he presented the four albums interleaved as Lather on the radio. He didn't accidentally do that. He intended to combine them, as Lather, to present them on the radio that way (whereupon he encouraged people to record the broadcast, etc.)
     
  16. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Okay, so it sounds like one of the main points that we've been arguing about is that I believe Frank created Läther to release to stores as a box set and you don't. Correct?
     
  17. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC Man
    Yes. And I believe it was created long after the source albums for it were created, where the impetus was to play the albums on the radio, because he was pissed off at Warner Bros.
     
  18. SOONERFAN

    SOONERFAN Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norman, Oklahoma
    I have everything from Freak Out to Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch (including MOFO & Meat Light), London Symphony Orchestra 1-2, Lather, and Yellow Shark. Am I missing any essentials?
     
  19. Jeff Kent

    Jeff Kent Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mt. Kisco, NY
    If you like live stuff...

    You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 1-6
    Make A Jazz Noise Here (88 band)
    The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life (88 band)
    Broadway The Hard Way (88 band)
     
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  20. Lather was released on Vinyl in Japan in the 1990's around the time of the CD release. Sadly it goes for big bucks.
    It's only a matter of time before the ZFT re-issue it on vinyl at a reasonable price, hopefully cut from the analog tapes.
     
  21. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Did Zappa dupe Mercury/Polygram into creating the test pressings for him or were they in on the plan?


    [​IMG]
     
  22. pbuzby

    pbuzby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    From comments I've heard FZ make in radio interviews in September 1977, he certainly did intend to release Lather on Halloween. Then sometime in October Warners blocked it.
     
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  23. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    If there is ever a Bongo Fury Project/Object, that would be a great bonus track.

    In addition, if the Hot Rats Project/Object ever gets off the ground, I hope it includes the backing track of "Lemme Take You To The Beach". I bet that would be interesting to hear without the overdubs.
     
  24. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    We know they got as far as the test pressing and the photo shoot for the album cover.

    Barry Miles' book claims 300 boxes were actually manufactured. Don't know where he got that. If true, either all of them were destroyed or somebody has quite a few rarities locked in their closet.
     
  25. greenoort

    greenoort Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    I would personally just follow his discography from the mothers to the 70s. The Mothers albums are all brilliant in their own right.
     
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