Gimicky surround may be here to stay

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by dwmann, Sep 21, 2002.

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  1. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    >>>>>>Its funny, with all this talk about "gimmicky" 5.1 mixes not succeding, has anybody considered that lots of people said the same thing about STEREO when it came out in the '50s?

    "Wow.....the singer is way over on that side and and the band is way over across the room on that other side"


    ......sure sounds like this "Gimmicy" 5.1 talk!!
     
  2. JonUrban

    JonUrban SHF Member #497

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Vex is 100% correct.

    Sure, today there are competing multichannel formats, but they are common up to the player, and most "players" decode all formats (with the exception of DVD-A and SACD, bit those are available and becoming more common).

    In the '70s, you needed a special receiver (no "home theater" base existed), a special cartridge (for CD-4), a special decoder/demodulator for each format, and specific software top match the decoder/demodulator.

    The thing that REALLY killed quad was that the QUALITY of the consumer available equipment SUCKED! How many people went out and bought "Juliette" quad systems, or some other lousy system that sounded bad with stereo, let alone quad. These folks would get home, set the thing up, put on an SQ record and........HUH???? Do you hear it??? sure, it's there, listen. These "No Logic" decoders caused many a consumer to get turned off right away. Those that bought the more expensive units, the CD-4 stuff, and the reels, and had the proper equipment to reproduce the sound, enjoyed it properly.

    Today, even the cheapest receivers have DISCRETE Dolby Digital and DTS decoders in them, with adaquate power and low distortion so that the "end user" can at least get the separation and fidelity they would expect from the marketing.

    If the "quad" technology was solid in the '70s, we would not be discussing this now, as CDs would have been multichannel from the start.

    And yes, I do like mono, and stereo, and multichannel. If something is mono, LEAVE IT THAT WAY. If something is stereo, LEAVE IT THAT WAY. If a multichannel mix could have been created but was not due to technological restrictions, so a stereo mix was made instead, LETS HEAR A MULTICHANNEL MIX!!!!

    LET'S HEAR THEM ALL THREE WAYS!!! :D :D

    :-jon
     
  3. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    >>>>Very good point, Jon!!
     
  4. JonUrban

    JonUrban SHF Member #497

    Location:
    Connecticut
    One last 5.1 thought.......

    The surround speakers DO NOT have to be "behind" you!!!

    If you don't like the sounds popping out of the back, place the speakers either at the sides, or even at the front sides.

    This will give you a wide stereo field in the front, with speaker placement accross the front of the listening field, like a real stage.

    This will work fine on discrete recordings, but ambience in the rears might sound odd coming from the front sides, but maybe not.

    My Denon AVR-5800 even takes this into consideration, by having separate rear channel speaker outputs, one set for theater rears, and one set for music rears. They suggest putting the music rears more to the side of the listener, but no one says they can't be more up front.

    Just remember, there is always an option on speaker placement. If you don't like it, move it!!! :D

    :-jon
     
  5. vex

    vex New Member

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Good point, Jon.

    I have my rear speakers on the sides, exactly 90 degrees from center. I played around with all kinds of different surround layouts and found this to be the best. Wendy Carlos has an excellent page dedicated to surround speaker placement: http://www.wendycarlos.com/surround/surround.html#intro

    I hate hearing music with sound coming from behind me. In my opinion, speakers behind you are only good for movies and musical ambiance. With side rear placement, the ambient mixes retain their full impact and discrete mixes provide for "wide stereo" instead of "drummer behind you".
     
  6. Beagle

    Beagle Senior Member

    Location:
    Ottawa

    I agree 100%!
     
  7. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Well put, Dave!
     
  8. JohnG

    JohnG PROG now in Dolby ATMOS!

    Location:
    Long Island NY
    My surround speakers are at the side of my listening area. For Home Theater that's where they are supposed to be, some modern mix's like 6.1 and 7.1 Movies now require at least 2 rear speakers but I haven't gone there yet.

    I would agree that having speakers way behind you while listening to music would sound wierd. They should be as near to the side as possible.

    For proper Surround Sound using either DVDA or SACD, the Surround Speakers should be to the side or a little further in front if you prefer.

    I didn't realize that some people think Surround Sound means speakers behind your head towards the back of the room.
     
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