Good Article on Vintage vs New Hi Fi Equipment

Ive heard great and bad from several decades. And even great older stuff, often is not great overall, it simply has a few things that are awesome, but it trades something else off, that some prefer.

The warm smooth sound of some older amps I used to own were heaven. Until I wanted to hear razor sharp clarity and resolution.

 

It's certainly true for the pre-1976 stuff. I have a Scott R-75 that's built like a tank, with multiple phono inputs. It was the best thrift store find EVER.

 

The top end vintage 70's stuff is excellent gear. The low end was just that - low end affordable stuff.

Todays expensive audiophile gear is very very good. Because its all still in spec. Lots of yesteryear boxes have drifted off and need to be redone. This can be a real headache if the tech isn't good. Many people will substitute parts etc which of course ruins the whole design. But a good tech that really knows what they are doing ... you get an old SX-1250 etc done by a good tech and it will rival new audiophile gear. Of course a complete restoration isn't going to be $500 ... double that. So while cheaper than new its still not "cheap" to find old pieces and properly restore.

Of the Ebay offering much of that has been ruined by do it yourselfers. So I can see why many just prefer to pay up for the new good gear. I myself like both.

 

I got that quote wrong, it was five watts, not ten.

 

Yeah, it was obvious someone somewhere knew about it but it was not printed in any US magazine and no one I knew of knew anything about it. There certainly were people who preferred tubes and made no secret of it but not that kind of tube equipment.

 

No. Because what hasn't changed in the last 10,000 years is human hearing and top audio engineers in the 50s and 60s had sufficient resources on hand to create technology that was wonderful sounding to humans. You have to ask yourself if every technological improvement is for the better. Anyone here will tell you they've never made better sounding tubes than in the past. Why is there a huge market for vintage components like oil and paper capacitors that just "sound better" to every musician on the planet? (and if you want those kind of modern boutique caps you can pay $30 apiece for them, when they used to cost a dime back when then were going into vintage amps.) I don't think you need the latest advances in computer modeling and particle physics to create pleasing audio instruments -- ask Antonio Stradivari.

 

^ This is true.. but there have been advances that have made a difference.

 

I heard they used better stuff in making tubes and caps back then. 'Stuff' I mean minerals and other things, I have no idea about, that today they don't use because it is too expensive. Is that true?

 

Another note: The hardest gear to keep alive today is late 1970's-2000's gear in many cases from the big brands. Those old IC chips, microprocessors, and STK modules pose special service issues and hard to sub around often. This is the era of one unobtainable part can end a unit's useful life. Tube through 1973 all silicon transistor based units usually serviceable today (germanium transistor based and some oddball parts exceptions).

 

Both the past and the present have given us landfills of so-so to horrific gear and also throughout the ages there have been moments of rare genius, of transparency and tone, but it's a grab bag. Pick your flavor. It seems like the common man understood high fidelity when I was young, then we all went crazy and lost our way, now simple tube amps, big box speakers, vinyl, are all being valued again... and some think this is all new. Just like the library of Alexandria was burnt and we fell into the dark ages and squaller, and now we think everything is modern brain surgery... stuff that was started three thousand or more years ago. I don't see one age being particularly better with the exception that now, we could have it all to pick from if we understood the past (or even the present, for that matter).

 

And no, the golden age of audio was not in the 50s, 60s, or 70s. The golden age of audio is right now.

 

I might suggest the (first) golden age of high fidelity was in the 50's . It was a confluence of post war (WW2) technology, social liberation (like post dark ages in Europe, a need to party and celebrate living well), and economy (money to spend on small luxuries). And we are having a (second) golden age today. Especially if you are a vinyl collector, as many on this site are. In the 50's direct heated triode amplification, FM, the LP, magnetic tape, became prominent and affordable and HiFi's in a common working class home were becoming exceptional sonically (even by today's standards) and somewhat common place, and their record collections were becoming larger and exceptional as well. History often repeats itself...

 

This poster knows his stuff.

 

I like your post but have a quibble with the part quoted - direct heated triode amplification was a relic of the 1930s, the 1950s were all about indirect heated pentodes and beam tetrodes.

 

In mass volumes, I'll beat you are correct sir.

 

For $4500-$6500 upwards, yes. New gear is great. But new gear priced at what most mortals will pay, no. The average new $500 to $1200 receiver or integrated amp is very inferior in performance, in build quality, in longevity to the better vintage units. One IC or microprocessor failure on the new ones and often it is GAME OVER. Not repairable. Disposable. Older all silicon based transistor gear is often repairable and maintainable. And transistors and tubes have substitutes available, application specific and many IC chips often have none. And these new components often are not conservatively engineered for longevity with often optimistic power ratings on the reasonably priced gear. The higher end and esoterics are exceptions to that rule. Consider that.

 

I can never understand these types of debates.

 

People will pay $40K for a pickup truck without batting an eyelash, but still expect to pay 1970s prices for hifi gear.

 

Its not that no one can make good tubes today. Like most products its about money. Tubes used to be used for everything. All electronics had them. Military had tubes in everything, medical equipment etc. Therefore it was a large market and several makers competed to satisfy the high demands of those markets. Consumer product benefited from that in pricing and availability. Now none of the above use tubes at all. Its a small market limited to Musicians and audiophiles. So we have I think 2 plants on the globe manufacturing tubes now. Lots of brand names printed on teh same tubes they claim are somehow premium but usually are just brand names. Different silkscreen, same tube.

 

The only fairly reliable generalization that can be made (on a topic inherently loaded with generalizations) - is that newer equipment is likely to have better specs - on average - for x dollars - even without adjusting for inflation.

 

Have two Kenwood KA-5700's (integrated amp, only rated 40 W/ch)... circa mid-70's. One in excellent condition, one is mint (from ebay). Sentimental for me, because I bought one new, nearly 40 years ago. Very nice sounding... I wouldn't trade them for ANYTHING.

 

I think we have more than two. I know there is Shuguang in China that makes various brands, including I think PSVane. Then there is Full Music located in Tianjin that makes their brand and Sophia. I've been to that factory. Then there is at least one in Russia and maybe one or two in Eastern Europe.

 

My favorite vintage receivers, Yamaha from the 70's, started using an IC drive chip in like '79... none of those can be repaired either if the IC fails. So, people do have to be careful choosing. I know a lot of the older stuff should have some of the bigger caps replaced for safety's sake.

 

This is a silly comment. Some of the most expensive HiFi gear out there is vintage and lots of the high price gear out there now is purchased used by people because of the massive depreciation it undergoes. Depreciation that is arguably due to a ridiculously over inflated original price.

 

Are the Czech folks still making tubes? I thought they dropped out.