Good Goodman?? (Benny Goodman)

Good Goodman??

Which sonically are the best of the original Benny Goodman big band and small ensemble recordings?

 

I agree with Steve in the sense that all the Goodman studio recordings at least sound very good, since he always recorded for the big companies and was a big star as far back as 1935.

That said...

The Victors (1935-39), while the best representation of his original and most famous band, are available nowhere on CD in good sound. The biggest RCA/BMG set is the three-disc "Birth of Swing," and it's No-Noised into submission. The Classics single-disc imports are O.K....nothing more. Worst of all is that jumbo 10-disc German set on the Past Perfect label that you can pick up for about 12 cents a disc. It's overpriced.

Problem with the Victors is that they were mostly recorded in a phone booth, and lack room sound. An exception would be the Chicago recordings (including "Down South Camp Meetin'") from '36, which have a bit of ambience. Still, if you listen to what Steven Lasker did with Ellington's Victor recordings (before and after Goodman's chronologically), you know there's much more in those grooves than we've been privileged to hear.
The small group recordings from this period have fared better: the BMG set of the complete Goodman small group recordings ('35-'39--basically the trio and quartet) sounds very good, although there's some fake stereo spread.

BMG needs to "do" the big band sides right, which means handing the project over to Lasker. (Or that other Steve...what's his name again?)

The sound of the Goodman recordings took a big step forward when he switched over to Columbia in '39. The early Columbia sides are boxy (some recorded in L.A.), but with vivid highs and very immediate sound. Later, when Columbia switched the sessions over to Liederkrantz Hall in New York, the sound of the Goodman recordings reached a new level of fidelity. Those sessions, featuring Goodman's second band and his sextet (with Charlie Christian), generally sound magnificent, with extended highs and spacious hall ambience.

Again, there's not much to choose as far as these recordings go on CD. Later this year, Sony is scheduled to release a four-disc set of Charlie Christian's recordings with Goodman, which should (if they let Ken Robertson do the engineering--some of his recent work has been very nice) at least offer the early '40 small group sessions in good sound.

MK

 

BTW, there is one good-sounding disc of the original Goodman big band: "Good to Go" on Buddah (not sure of current availability), which consists of half of Goodman's NBC Thesaurus transcription recordings (51 selections in all, recorded at a single session in June of 1935!).

This is worth it just to hear Goodman's astonishing solo on (of all things) "Yes, We Have No Bananas."

Oh, and the transfers are superlative, accomplished by none other than Steve Hoffman.

MK

 

Yes, the Charlie Christian box set due later this year is definitely something to look out for.

Steve makes some good points about the RCA material, which has be NoNoised to death by most reissues. HOWEVER, John R T Davies, the most reliable engineer in the business when it comes to mastering this material, put together some great discs for the Scottish independant label, Hep. They're sequenced by arranger, and the best of the bunch, not surprisingly, is "Benny Goodman Plays Fletcher Henderson." The other discs, all which can be bought on amazon.co.uk and other UK sites, sound just as good, but the first Fletcher Henderson disc is the best. These were the arrangements that the band made its name on.

As for the small group stuff, the only CD's I know of that cover that are the 3 CD "Complete" set by RCA/BMG, the unauthorized disconforme/Definitive CD's, and some old RCA Tribune CD's. The 3 CD set from RCA/BMG is great in content and information, but the sound is horrendous. Just listen to the cymbals and you'll understand why so many avoid CEDAR, NoNoise...good for declicking, but horrendous when it comes to basic noise reduction. The Definitive CD's, I haven't heard, but the source material is usually hit or miss, and some CD's are allegedly pirated copies of other masterings. I've only heard their Charlie Parker CD's, and the source material was not the best; very little noise reduction, though. The RCA/Tribune CD's supposedly come from Lp masters; these CD's are French imports, but can be found in the states for cheap (two double-disc sets, they can be found used for about $10). Could be better, but the transfers sound a bit "easier" on the music, so I recommend these by default.

 

Thanks Guys you really know your stuff, so I want to put this to you, if I'm wrong (and in a way I hope I am) please set me straight.

When we listen to these old recordings by Goodman, Shaw, the Dorseys and the like the music, even with the relatively poor sound quality (as compared to recent recordings) "grabs you and takes you on an emotional ride" that in most cases bands today can't reproduce. Now I listen to a lot of different kindsof music and some of it is fabulous BUT WHEN IT COMES TO BIG & MEDIUM SIZED SWING BANDS IMHO nobody today can hold a candle to these guys. I've listened to a lot of todays repro bands, some even carrying the names of the "greats" but what you usually end up with is a technically correct extremely well recorded SNORE BORE!

If there are any recordings by modern swing groups that give you even an inkling of the feeling you get when listening to the older greats Please, let me know 'cause I want some.

 

Well, they're not my cup of tea, but you might want to take a look at the recent reissue of the Time-Life series "The Swing Era." These were recreations of the original performances by Billy May and some of the old swing era musicians. (The set also includes some recreations by Glen Gray.) The idea was to duplicate the original performances in modern stereo sound. The sound was good; as for the performances, not surprisingly they suffer in comparison to the originals. (You can't write down and slavishly imitate spontaneity.) Not incidentally, Artie Shaw unsuccessfully sued Time-Life, because he claimed the inferior performances of his music in this set hurt his reputation and the sales of his own recordings.

Anyway, if you're still interested, here's the url (the site includes audio clips, so you can decide if these are for you or not):

Time-Life Swing Era (via makeashorterlink.com)

MK

 

Hi MK

You seem to be very knowledgeable about Big Band music, which I like. On Hindsight's '87 CD "Harry James and his Orchestra Play 22 Original Big Band Recordings (1943 - 1953)" Harry James and the band really swing on several numbers - "Lover Come Back To Me", "I Found A New Baby" and "The Man I Love". I am assuming these are radio transcriptions (the sound is very good) because it's Hindsight. Most of James' Columbia material is slow. Can you recommend any CDs where James really swings?

 

ERIC Records also issued a Glen Gray CD which features stereo re-creations of the original swing recordings.

http://www.ericrecords.com

 

If you're looking for "better-sounding" recordings by some of the big band pioneers, check out many of their mid-50's recordings. Capitol did a series of albums, such as "Benny Goodman in Hi-Fi" from 1954, that sounds good. Likewise, there are many great Duke Ellington recordings from that era as well. I also love to death the Complete Capitol Recordings of Woody Herman on Mosaic. Many of the big bands rerecorded their older 78-era arrangements during the 50s, often with original personal, and I find that these are much more "authentic" than the Time-Life-like "recreations" that came later.
Ray

 

Hi, Chip.

As for swinging Harry James CDs, the band was very jazz-oriented early on, but a commercial bomb. Later, when Harry began to lay the schmaltz on thick, the band hit it big. Stuff like "Sleepy Lagoon," "You Made Me Love You," and "I Had the Craziest Dream" were huge hits, but not exactly hard-swinging sides.

This recently-issued 2-disc compilation has all the hits, but is fleshed out with some of the more up-tempo James recordings:

Amazon link to James hits CD

Actually, some of James' best work was as a sideman, with Goodman (1937-39) and on one session with Billie Holiday in '37, IIRC.

MK

 

Ah Yes! Harry James. It absolutely astounds me how someone could create such a unique and instantly recognizable timbre with an instrument the way that James has. It's not just a style or technique it's THAT SOUND. I just love it. I'll have to get that 2 disc set.

 

Please note, if it wasn't clear: the two-disc James compilation includes only his recordings with his own band. The Goodman and Billie Holiday sides are compiled elsewhere. (There are two single BMG Goodman discs, "The Harry James Years," volumes 1 and 2; these don't sound quite as bad as the "Birth of Swing" box set, but there is still too much noise reduction for my taste.)

BTW, the aforementioned James 2-disc set on Jasmine (a British label) isn't exactly a world-beater soundwise either, but until Sony does their own job on this stuff (if ever), it's the best bet in terms of content; a good overview of the band's output.

Incidentally, not previously mentioned among Goodman's recordings, there's also the famous 1938 Carnegie Hall concert; to my ears, this sounds best on the Definitive Records issue (which sounds like the extremely noisy last version put out by Sony with CEDAR gently applied and with a little needed low-end EQ added; also, extended pauses between selections edited out; all told, much more listenable than the Sony); another essential Goodman set is the "On the Air" 2-disc box from Sony (consisting of hard-swinging late '30s airchecks), though this too needs sonic refurbishing.

Finally, one should investigate the six (IIRC)-disc box set of Goodman's Madhattan Room broadcasts from the same prime period, in generally good sound (if somewhat bottom-heavy).

All of these feature James on trumpet, in generally great form.

MK