So far so good, I think it was a worthy purchase. Just need to nail down the technique. So far I am slicking it down with a distilled water/alcohol/drop of dish soap, letting it sit a minute, sucking that up and doing the same with distilled water as a rinse. Did a few records and just listening now. Pops and ticks are slightly reduced which is great, but I am still having the issue with a bit of dust/dirt on my stylus after playing through an album side. Any thoughts on why this is, and if my technique is any good? Thanks
Try letting your cleaner solution sit/soak for three minutes, followed by your rinse. I don't do a timed soak with the rinse, I just get it real wet and and brush it around a couple of revolutions and vacuum it off to make sure that the cleaner fluid is completely removed. I tried shorter soak times with the cleaner, but it just seems to need more time than a minute. If an LP has been cleaned well beforehand and just needs a touch up to play, a minute soak is just fine followed by a quick rinse. I use a timer to time the three minutes, much less agonizing than using your watch. I usually clean the stylus during the soak time and/or harass my wife! Really dirty LP's sometimes need longer times, or multiple passes. These are usually the ones I find at the thrift store, as opposed to the used bins at the record stores. If you dry too long, you can introduce static. A Zerostat will take care of that. I know it sounds like a hassle, but when you hear an LP that was driving you crazy before suddenly go quiet, it will seem worthwhile. After you do this for awhile, you'll end up with a small collection of brushes and fluids for different tasks/moods. I still have a bottle of MoFi "One" for those times that I want to a quick clean and listen now!
3 minutes seems like a long time, just worried about the alcohol being on there so long (something about leaching plasticizers or someting becoming airborne from the record, or something similar.). I will take your advice though and try a longer time with the cleaning solution on the record. I am seeming to have a difficult time spreading the water across the record for the rinse phase too, it seems to puddle. I am using an old record carbon fiber brush to spread the water, really wish the squeaky clean came with an extra velvet thingy. Maybe I can't get it into the grooves with that or something? Anyways, I'll have to experiment for a bit (shouldn't have rushed through cleaning 10 records and putting them in new sleeves).
I've switched to enzyme cleaning fluids. I don't know what to tell you about having alcohol on a LP for that long, you may be right to be concerned. You could contact Nick at Squeaky Clean. I know that he's had lots experience with DIY fluid. You could probably pick up a couple more brushes from him cheaply too. The rinse water will puddle, buts that's nothing to worry about. When you spread it across the LP with the brush, it will pull up whatever fluid is still in the groves with it when it pools up, to vacuum away. You want the cleaning fluid to smoothly cover the LP, but the rinse can pool up after you've brushed it around. I've been using nylon brushes from Audio Intelligent to apply fluids. They don't push grit further into the grooves, they only spread the fluid around. I let the soaking do the cleaning, and the Squeaky Clean to remove the fluid/dirt. I do have the Mofi brushes too, but I seem to get better results with soaking than scrubbing.
I asked nick as you suggested and he says he just uses a alcohol/distilled water mix, letting it sit for a bit and then rotating 2-3 times. Then follow up with a distilled rinse. I decided to follow this method and I still have any issue with a bit of dust accumulating on the stylus (very little, barely visible with 30x magnification and more visible with 60x, but I don't see anything with just my eyes. Must be dust still, oh well. It did help diminish record pops though. I let the solution sit 1 min and did another brushing to spread to the liquid around again after that, seems to work great. Brushing the mp110 stylus is such a pain cause the body makes it hard to see (you have to remove the stylus or the headshell to really see). Probably going to pickup a zerodust to save my sanity.
I can't speak to the effectiveness of the particular machine, but with any RCM, you need to scrub the record with the fluid for a bit, then vacuum. Just soaking isn't going to do much. -Bill
Scrubbing is an option Bill, but certainly not a requirement in my book. I haven't scrubbed a record in at least 10 years after having a bad experience doing so. I apply fluids (both first stage and rinse) with carbon fibre brushes and they definitely don't do much in terms of scrubbing . But they are very effective in gently getting the fluid down into the groove where it can do its job. Better quality fluids simply work better to loosen and suspend debris so the RCM can remove it. The biggest mistake many people with RCM's make IMO is cheaping out on the fluids. Took me a little while, but I discovered that I would rather pay a bit more for high quality fluids and clean a record once (or twice) effectively as opposed to cleaning it 4 or 5 times with substandard fluids to try and get it clean. Many fluids will work better with a bit of (or even extended) soak time with dirtier records. AIVS 15 for example, which I've used pretty much exclusively for about 7-8 years and which most users will highly recommend, is more effective the longer it sits on and soaks on a record. Jim Pendleton who markets the AIVS products will also tell you that. It must be followed with a pure water rinse. Below is a record that was cleaned with an extended soak time with AIVS 15, about a 15 minute soak. Probably the worst records I have tackled; had a couple of them given to me-they had been water damaged and the paper inner had literally disintegrated and welded itself to the record after they had dried. Very good jazz records from the early 60's so I thought I'd try and salvage them (was given 3-4 of them); apart from the dirt and mold, though, they were in fabulous condition and now play flawlessly. FWIW, alcohol is not much of a cleaner or cleaning agent for records IMO. It does very little to remove most of what causes problems for us with record playback and although I experimented with it early in my cleaning adventures I haven't used any cleaning fluids with alcohol in years as they are not as effective as something like AIVS 15, or even Mo Fi Enzyme for example, both of which contain no alcohol. I do keep some isopropyl around for the odd record which may have some very sticky substance on it, but there are very few. Can't remember the last time I used it.
The AIVS fluids are great. Their "Down With Dirty" fluid is darn near economical. I like AIVS 15 for tough LP's, and "Down With Dirty" as a follow up and for everyday use.
I too use the Squeaky Clean, and find it to be a great tool. This thread interest me because I'm always up for trying new methods/cleaners. I've been using a home brew myself and have been happy for the most part. But I have maybe 10 more records worth left in my bottle, and have been wanting to try something new. My mixture is the typical 3/4 distilled water, 1/4 isopropyl alcohol (91%). But I also add a couple caps of simple green and a squirt of Jet Dry. My routine is to spin the platter and use the carbon fiber brush to pick up any dust/lent on the record. I then apply the solution and spread it around with a painter's edging brush. After it's been spread I spin the platter 3-4 times while holding the edging brush in place. I don't really scrub, but I do hold it down firmly enough that I feel it's working the solution in. I then let it sit for a minute, then vacuum. Add distilled water for a rinse with a different brush, then vacuum. In my experience the label does get a little wet on the edges. I carefully blot any water with a micro-fibre towel. Flip and repeat. After the second side is done I air dry on a dish rack. I've been very happy with my results. Sometimes shocked at how quiet the records have become. I'm convinced the vacuum has a lot to do with it. The Squeaky Clean gets my vote for money well spent.
I have this machine and I am not a fan of DIY record cleaning solutions. There are some guys on the VE forum that are chemists that make their own fluid, and maybe that is good, but the typical water/alcohol/dawn crap is just that, crap, IME. It doesn't do a good job cleaning. Same thing with weak one step cleaners. I use AI #15 and then do at least two rinse cycles afterwards. I do let the fluid soak for 4-5 minutes which is absolutely safe with this fluid. However, you need to agitate it before and after doing the soak. You'll know it's agitated because bubbles will form. It will take a little bit of practice to get your method down with the rinse cycles (like it would with any RCM) but this fluid is the real deal. It's not going to fix records that are damaged though.
One more thing, re: scrubbing. It is not necessary to scrub records like you are scrubbing off bacon grease from a skillet unless those are extremely filthy records you are cleaning, which are probably scratched anyway and will still be noisy after cleaning. The average record store used LP just needs a very light agitation to free the crap that's on it.
Absolutely agree. Agreed, though if you are doing a soak longer than 5 minutes you probably want to refresh the fluid with a little distilled water and then re-agitate every so often so it doesn't dry out on the record. Agree 100% about rinsing, also where people miss the boat.
Absolutely. If I am doing a really extended soak, which is rare, I will tend to use a bit more fluid to ensure that nothing is drying on the record in the soak time. I clean in a basement which has slightly higher humidity levels and that helps as well. Rinsing is critical IMO. I tend to rinse twice with ultrapure water after the 15 and then will usually give the record a couple of plays and then rinse twice again with ultrapure (no second round of #15 unless the record is really problematic/dirty).
Thanks for the input everyone. I currently have half a bottle still full of my cleaning solution and i'm pretty satisfied with my results thus far. Once I am done my current batch I will try and look for something else (better start now knowing how hard it is to acquire this stuff in canada). the mofi stuff is hard to come by especially at a decent price. The only place I found that sells it in canada has it back ordered for nearly 60 dollars which is higher than us price even after the currency conversion. The mofi site sells it but will not ship outside of U.S. ground, which isn't an option for obvious reasons. The other mentioned fluid, the aivs 15 is available on a website called elusive disc, but again I have no idea if that will even ship across the border (maybe it's the ingredients, I dunno). AIVS 15 is advertised as a pre cleaner by the way, but there is a archivist and 1 step cleaner. Would one of these be a better choice for this? I will try and see if i can even order from there. If I had to go d.i.y, is there a better mixture to use?
If you want to try the AIVS products Columbus Radio Ltd in Winnipeg carry them. I believe they are the only dealers in Canada. Elusive Disc does ship to Canada but you'll probably be looking at another $25 USD for a bottle to ship. Columbus don't even have website you have to call them. Osage were the ones that pointed me in that direction. It's where I got mine. However, I found that AIVS was not cost effective as the price was still quite high. Not sure where you looked for Mofi products but there are multiple dealers in Canada that carry their cleaning products: www.diamondgroove.com , www.takefiveaudio.com , www.everestaudio.com/ probably even more Everestaudio also sell L'Art Du Son which I use and like the best. It's $57 for a bottle but it's a concentrate so it'll last you for a long long time. Much longer than any Mofi or AIVS solution. Diamond Grove also sell Walker Audio record cleaning solutions. Not tried them myself but heard good things. Also, it's always worth trying eBay. Stick to reputable sellers and you can get decent prices. For years I bought my L'Art Du Son from eBay sellers in Europe as getting it in Canada was difficult.
Is the fluid forming blobs? I don't think you need to soak the record as long as the fluid seeps into the grooves. It won't if it forms blobs. If you have blobs, add a couple drops of Jet Dry from your dishwasher. This will break the surface tension of the blobs and it should allow it to enter the grooves.
#15 can be used as a pre-cleaner for extremely filthy records or as a regular cleaner. I use it as the latter. #15 is actually a combo of two different AI products IIRC. I do not like 1 step, no rinse cycle cleaners and would not recommend them.
The mobile fidelity enzyme cleaner is much easier to come by (not the one step, but the one designed for rcm’s). I will probably pick some of this up as it’s much easier to get ahold of in stores. I figure I should do a distilled rinse afterwards anyways?
Probably a good idea. Enzyme cleaners can work great on records where water/alcohol cleaners can't cut some crap. You have to let the enzyme cleaner sit for it to work. I have customers who like it but I can't be bothered with long wait times, multiple cleanings and rinses. I use a one step cleaner and elbow grease. It works like a charm on 99% of records in seconds. It'd have to be really nasty for it not to. With a good one step cleaner like that, on a record that looks fairly clean, you don't have to rinse. You can if you want to, but it's just more time and effort when it hasn't proven to be necessary for me. It is if the records are really dirty, then they will need two washes or a wash followed by a rinse. I try not to even buy records like that, but I do seem to allow a few such strays into my collection. The alcohol isn't a super solvent, rather it allows the fluid to dry quickly. Water is what does most of the work here. That and elbow grease. Don't forget that part. It's the cheapest and most effective ingredient! -Bill
Definitely want to rinse with any enzyme cleaner. You can put your distilled water in a spray bottle so it's easier to use.
I've used both the AI 15 and the Mo Fi Enzyme (as well as the Mo Fi Super Deep and Super Vinyl Wash). The AI 15 is (IMO) far superior enough to the Mo Fi Enzyme and grossly superior to the Super Deep, enough so to warrant seeking it out and spending the extra cash. Columbus Radio is, to the best of my knowledge and as mentioned above, the only Canadian source. I actually just re-ordered last week and the price is about $80 Cnd delivered for the large bottle. Enough to clean about 400 records (you need only about 2-3 ml) of fluid to clean a record, so about 23 cents a record. The Mo Fi will be cheaper but is not as effective; you will spend more time cleaning (ie. multiple cleanings) to get the same result if you are very lucky. If you're not, the record simply will not be as clean. Think also about how much your time is worth. Having re-cleaned about half of my existing collection (which is around 2000 records-I've probably cleaned twice that in the past 10 years) after discovering the AI, I would recommend that you just bite the bullet and start there. I wish it was around when I first started to wet clean records. Bill Hart, who is probably one of the most knowledgeable (and experienced) guys with respect to different approaches to record cleaning, including very pricey RCM's like the Monks and Loricraft and ultrasonics, is also a fan of the #15 I believe so take that for what it is worth. Whether you go with the AI 15 or the Mo Fi Enzyme, you are going to need to rinse at least twice with distilled or a high purity water product. Your records will be cleaner and sound better in my experience. If you are still dredging up crap which is collecting on your stylus following a wet clean and vac something is wrong in terms of the efficacy of either the fluids you are using or the vac, or both and I doubt it is your vac. Either that or you have very dirty records LOL. That is not to say that some very dirty records will not benefit from a second, or even a third cleaning. I've gotten to the point where I am confident enough in my technique to scrap a record after a second cleaning (sometimes even a first if I can tell that it is groove damage and not dirt that I am dealing with-have one of those that I just bought this week: late 60's pressing that looks pristine but was clearly played with a brick once or twice!). I am with Patient OT on this one; one step cleaners do not do it for me. They inevitably leave behind surfactants, etc. that mask both detail and dynamics in my experience. Others feel differently obviously; like anything in this hobby, it is a subjective preference as to "how clean is clean enough".
Are you using high purity water and if so, how did you get ahold of it?! I found a couple of places online but none that would sell it to me.
