Got the urge for some Grado headphones

All the comments about fit issues and wrong-sounding voicing has led me to look at the Sennheiser 650. Detachable cable--so I can get longer ones if needed--and better comfort makes these a serious consideration. Fortunately online retailers offer return policies; might order some Grados and the 650s and do my own A/B testing

 

I still have a pair of 125e’s and RS2e’s - they’re fun but not a go-to anymore. The thing that attracted me to Grados was that the mids weren’t recessed like a lot of other headphones that I had been using. But sometimes I think that my favorite Grado is a pair of HD 600s...

If you can, try comparing the 600 to the 650 - I don’t think one is better than the other, just different...

 

The Grado headphones can be made more comfortable and be made to fit better if you bend the headband a little. The idea is to give the headband a little bit of a squared shape rather than a round shape. There are pictures and a description of what to do on the Headphile web site (follow this link and scroll down to about the middle of the page to the section on "Adjusting Headband for Better Fit").

Here's a quick picture of my SR325is with that style of bend. It works for me. Don't go wild. It's just a slight bit of bending. That bend gets the pads to fit flat around the ears. It eliminates a lever effect that caused the top of the pads to have more pressure than the bottom of the pads. The result is better fit and better comfort.

 

I've got some SR 80s and also bought a pair for a relative as a present. They do me nicely, as I'm not a big can user. The 325e's are very well reviewed over here and won the top award with What Hi Fi at their price point in 2016.

 

The main consideration with the HD600 or HD650 is that they're more difficult to drive. They require a good headphone amp to get them to do what the people who like them claim they do. With an underpowered or mushy sounding amp the HD600/HD650 will sound wimpy and lifeless. They perk up with good amplification, but still don't get overly aggressive. The Senns are very well suited for classical, jazz, and vocals. With good amps they can even rock out.

One reason people like the Grados is that they're easy to drive. Even a wimpy headphone amp will drive them with enough authority to rock out and sound snappy. People demo the Grados with a typical headphone jack and are impressed. Then try the Senns in that same headphone jack and are underwhelmed. So they choose the Grado. If they demoed the headphones with a better amp then more of them (but not all) would pick the Senns.

If you're going to consider the Senns you need to consider what amp you're going to use. Some receivers can drive them, but most likely you'll need a dedicated headphone amp for them. And that adds to the cost. Fortunately there are lots of suitable headphone amps available now at a range of prices. Any of the Schiit amps from $179 to $399 will drive the Senns well. And there are other amps. All depends on what type of sound and features and budget you're after.

There are other headphones that are good for jazz, classical, and vocal while being easier to drive. So you won't need a dedicated headphone amp as desperately as you would with the Senns.

 

I use my Grados as my Primary set of cans. I'm very happy with the GH2 with G-Pads. The highs aren't bright, there's actual Low-End on a Grado with good enough soundstage. The Senns will win easy when it comes to being neutral and having soundstage. At least to my ears, I found every single Senn to be lifeless and dull. I guess I'll take that colored Grado mid-range all day/night.

I would first think about what sound you want first. Some want neutral, while others want engaging.

 

I drive my RS1e's with a Schiit Vali 2 and I rolled the tube to a Telefunken NOS. I also substituted the G series pads I was fortunate enough to demo the Audeze's, Grados and Senns at my local retail stereo store in NJ. The Grados were the warmest, wha I was looking for, the most comfortable because of thier weight, and they don't fatigue my ears. I listen to them for long periods of time. When I listen at night and the wife goes to sleep early.

 

Now thinking of getting higher end Grado like RS1 or RS2 and using them as my main speakers instead of my older B&W 601s. An interesting idea maybe

 

I would strongly suggest that you audition the RS1e's at a local retailer in your area with a stand-alone headphone amp. I believe you will be pleasantly surprised at the sound and comfort of the lightweight Grados

Best of luck in whatever you choose
Steve

 

Unless it were an absolute necessity, I would never forgo speakers for headphones.

 

The problem with Grados is that their engagement is more of the type of engagement you get when lying on a bed of nails than the type of engagement you get from being connected with the music. With the Grados I'm always waiting for when the next sound is going to poke me uncomfortably.

Grados make too many otherwise very good recordings sound just awful. They can make some recordings sound really neat. But then they will make some recordings sound really bad. A good headphone will not make good recordings sound bad. A good headphone will work with all types of music and all types of recordings. Grados are just simply not a good headphone by those standards. They're not a good headphone. They can be a fun headphone for some music. But they are not a good headphone. We wouldn't accept a speaker that was that wonky and made that many good recordings sound bad. Why do we accept that in headphones? A headphone that works with only some music is not a good headphone.

I consider my Grado SR325is to be unsuitable or undesirable for at least 40% (possibly more) of my music library. Would you want a primary headphone that makes you not want to listen to 40% of your music library? Would you accept a speaker that did that? Yet many reviewers give the Grados positive reviews without any mention of the negative aspects of the Grado sound and the fact that the Grado sound will make many otherwise good recordings sound bad. It's impossible for a reviewer not to notice that some otherwise good recordings will turn into the equivalent of lying on a bed of nails. To not mention that in a review does a disservice to the people reading the review.

Flim & the BB's "TriCycle" is just one example of an album that has unexpectedly zinged my ears while listening to it with the Grados. Some of the instruments on TriCycle are mixed loud and forward. The Grado having an overly forward midrange makes those instruments just go ZOW right into your ear. TriCycle sound fine on all of my other headphones. But on the Grados it goes ZOW and is just unbearable. I avoid listening to blues on the Grados because I'm in fear of a close mic'ed forward sounding harmonica coming in and going ZOW to my ears. So many albums and styles of music I've learned not to listen to on Grados.

I also find the Grados to be unusable for determining if a mastering or recording is done well. The EQ and artifacts of the Grado sound is so off that I cannot reliably judge the quality of the mastering or recording. My Senn HD600 and HD650 and my Audeze LCD-2.2 make it easy for me to evaluate the quality of the mastering and the recording. Same with my Fostex/Massdrop TH-X00 and my HiFiMan HE-560. My Grados are useless for that task. If I attempted to use the Grados I would end up being wrong and inconsistent about the listening evaluation.

This is more negative than I would normally be about a headphone. But it is also something that needs to be said about the Grado sound. Because the professional reviewers and many of the user reviewers are unwilling to say it. And it needs to be said. The Grado sound has some negatives. It's not all roses. There are some significant thorns.

 

I love you Mr. Hams, but I hope you understand that the SR325is are infamous for their nail-piecing highs. Not all Grados have that nail-piecing issue. My GH2 with the G-Pads doesn't have the bright highs, in matter of fact the highs are rolled off with an excellent low-end for a Grado + the engaging midrange. I have plenty of excellent recordings that sounded excellent on different headphones (LCD-2, HD 600, etc.) and those recording still sound excellent on any Grado I threw at it.

I also disagree that a Grado can't determined a good recording or not. My higher end Grados are more than capable to determined if a recording is using a later gen tape for the digital transfer, or EQ the heck out of it for the highs. I think for those who want to be analytical, the PS500 is excellent for that task.

 

I wonder if Ham Sandwich's extreme dissatisfaction isn't due to issues further upstream, like an impedance mismatch? If Grado headphones are anything like their cartridges, they are probably fussy.

I really like my modded SR80i's... I compared them to some upper level Prestige Series phones (225s?) and preferred my pair.

 

I've heard high end Grados like the GS1000, PS1000, PS500. I've heard the RS1 and RS2 and the SR series lineup. Along with a few of the custom edition Grados like the HF2. They all have wonky uneven frequency response, ringing issues, and other issues. The SR series and RS series have a family sound with a 2kHz bump and ringing around that bump area and ringing in other areas and an overall wonky frequency response that wants to shout at you. The GS1000 and PS1000 have a smile curve response that does not sound nice at regular or higher volume levels. All of the Grados are wonky in some way, and in a significant way. If they were closer to neutral and off in more subtle ways I could deal with them much better. But they're not. There's nothing subtle about Grado tuning.

I've also heard the HP-1. It's the only Grado that wasn't wonky. Grado needs to make that headphone again.

 

There are more neutral and well suited for listening to every type of music and all recordings.

A Sennheiser HD650 combined with an amp that's on the aggressive side, like a Schiit Jotunheim ($399), is not going to be boring and lifeless. It's still not going to be the most lively and get the last bit of slam out of the music. Similar to how Maggie speakers don't quite get that last bit of slam that box speakers can. But still they sound good. Just like the Senns.

The special edition Massdrop/Fostex TH-X00 ($399) is a fun sounding headphone that is easy to drive. It's not as amp dependent as the Senns. It has a fun and full sound with strong bass. Very different sound that the Grado, but I actually find the TH-X00 to be more fun to listen to and more engaging than the Grado.

There are many other good headphone choices that will be better suited for jazz, classical, vocal and similar genres than the Grados. Lots of choices.

 

I was a HUGE fan of the grado rs2e. Loved these cans like nothing else in the world.
That is - until I borrowed the RS2e to a heavy metal / technohead friend of mine. He fried my precious cans within 5 minutes of use
Sent them off for repair over a month ago and looks like I might still wait another month or more until they hopefully will come back to me fixed.
Grados repair service in Europe is a mess.
Also, NEVER EVER give your headphones to "friends" who dont have any insurance to cover their ****ups :/

 

I have 4 pairs of Grado headphones, all their best models except for the new flagship PS2000. {check my profile} Love them all. None of these problems other people are talking about. My buddy has the Senn 800 and Stax sr-oo9s. Prefer my ps1000 over the 800 any day of the week. Twice on Sundays. SRoo9, now thats another story, best headphones I have ever heard.. Love my Grados.

 

Look, as with any person who bought a certain brand, they only like what they have and may find fault in any other brand. In other word, you either love Grado or hate Grado. I for one am very satisfied with the Grado's. I wasn't even considering them when I went to buy headphones. I was replacing my Beyerdynamics Custom Ones because they were fatiguing my ears after only a short listening session. I went out looking for Senns or Audeze.
I auditioned all three brands and found the Grado's, comfortable, non fatiguing, warm and clean. The RS1e's did not sound bright to me, they had a nice bass response and overall their light weigh and comfort allows me to listen for long periods of time.

Bottom line is that we are all different with different hearing ranges, tolerances and comfort levels. Go out and AUDITION all the headphones you can. Unless you have $$$$ to waste by buying a set of headphones for a month, then going out and replace them with another set, these should be looked as a long term investment for your ears. Good luck!
Steve

 

I don't read Ham Sandwich's post about the Grados to be as damning as people are making out. I doubt that they really need to be defended. He has both makes, plus others. He has stated that he still listens to the Grados.

At the end of the day, the Grados are a little more exciting than Senns. I also have both and would agree that the Grados are more "exciting". These differences should be pointed out to perspective buyers. The converse of that is that the Senns could be seen as flat sounding and uninvolving depending on the shopper's perspective. It really should come down to the sound the OP prefers. Along those lines, he really owes it to himself to try multiple brands and models to see what he prefers, especially at the price point he is willing to spend.

I also agree that the Grados can be comfortable after a small adjustment. It is up to the owner to fit them to their head. I've twisted the band on mine to fit me better. I've only used the stock cushions. After wearing the stock cushions for a while they do compress which also compresses my ears which becomes uncomfortable. For hours of use, I would recommend looking at different cushions.

 

I'm not really a headphone guy, but I do have a pair of Grado SR60e's and some Sennheiser PX100ii's. When I compare them, the Senns are darker and more lush than the Grados. If a recording has any sibilance on it, the Grado will transmit it, while the Senns will mask it pretty well. Problem is, if a piece of equipment is hiding some sibilance, you can bet it's hiding other things as well.

 

Quite some time ago I had Grado 325 and RS-2 cans but didn't like the presentation much; no real sense of soundstage and I also found them uncomfortable after a while. I spent some time with Sennheiser HD600's which are nice (and harder to drive), then bought the Grado GS1000. Driven with a 45SET amp they were wonderful and were my main cans for several years. With their wider ear cups they were also very comfortable. Check out Head-Fi.org. They may still have local meets where you can audition many models with various amps.

 

I had a pair of Senn hd600’s. I still have my Grado’s. Read into that what you will.

 

A little too old to be relevant.

 

Went back and checked out the 125e’s and RS2e’s... In the $150 price range I could see the 125e’s as someone’s main cans... Like some other Grados, heir biggest fault is soundstage width, otherwise the fun factor to neutrality ratio is pretty good. They work over a wide range of material, which tells me they’re more neutral than the RS2e's. The RS2e’s on the other hand are only listenable with great recordings...

 

Saw that and was interesting but as you say outdated. Also saw the reviews of mist of all the Grados which was a phenomenally huge spreadsheet type review. Ruthieandjohn did the analysis