Grateful Dead fans; a lot of talk, but not much rock. Why is that?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by omnisonic, Jan 21, 2018.

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  1. omnisonic

    omnisonic Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    To date, “The Grateful Thread” thread is the leader in the SH Forum clubhouse with 1,313,443 views and 53,153 replies. That’s a lot of talking about a band that doesn’t seem to get many votes in the “best/favorite albums” or “best/favorite bands” lists that gets posted on the forum.

    1st Annual* SH Forums Favorite Albums Countdown (As Voted By You) - THE RESULTS
    1st Annual* SH Forums Favorite Albums Countdown (As Voted By You) - THE RESULTS

    In this 2008 thread of the top 250 albums, only 1 Dead album was listed and it barely broke the top 100


    Poll:The Greatest Bands Of All Time
    Poll:The Greatest Bands Of All Time

    In this 2017 thread of the greatest bands of all time, The Dead barely cracked the top 10.


    Note that this is not meant to be any kind of critique or judgment about The Grateful Dead or their band’s fan base here on SH forum, it was just an observation. I’m wondering if anyone here, GD fans included, have any theories of why this band is so popular to talk about but relatively few want to get behind and vote for.
     
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  2. JerolW

    JerolW Senior Member

    "They're not the best at what they do, they're the only ones that do what they do."

    jerol
     
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  3. O Don Piano

    O Don Piano Senior Member

    What a silly thread idea.
    You either like and 'get' the Grateful Dead, or you don't.
    They don't lend themselves to popular, sports-like numbers and statistics. They're a whole different thing.
     
    zen, ronbow, Ezzie and 10 others like this.
  4. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Stats vs. music.

    Which will prevail?
     
    ConnieGuitar likes this.
  5. Thievius

    Thievius Blue Oyster Cult-ist

    Location:
    Syracuse, NY
    As far as albums go, they're not a studio band. People do love some of the albums, but they're adored for their live material.
     
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  6. Frozensoda

    Frozensoda Forum Resident

  7. Thievius

    Thievius Blue Oyster Cult-ist

    Location:
    Syracuse, NY
    Heh. That pretty much sums it up.
     
  8. JerolW

    JerolW Senior Member

    [​IMG]

    jerol
     
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  9. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    Two factors at least I can think of - first the Grateful Thread started in 2014, just in time for a massive upswing in the visibility and popularity of the band. I've always been a fan, but apart from a few core recordings I had, I wasn't really into them c. 2006-2014 the way I was before and after that. I think the 50th anniversary had a lot to do with it, I recall hearing discussions about it on the sports radio and the local news, among other outlets. (That IMO also accounts for the earlier poll you cite - there's been a critical reevaluation and a strengthening of the online presence of GD fans in more general music/audio forums, vs. insular GD/jam band communities.) That's my experience anyway, I found this forum in 2016, looking for info on Funkadelic, and noticed a big GD presence here.

    Second - I don't know how much stock to put in polls like that - for instance, I did a 'favorite guitarist after Hendrix' poll (based on the top 25 vote-getters in the 'name your 5 favorite guitarists' thread,) where Garcia was in the top 5 with the likes of Gilmour, Townshend, Beck etc. There was also a 'Top American Band' topic where the main discussion was between the GD and the Beach Boys, pretty much even in terms of number of votes after quite a few pages. But no one knows how representative the sample size is for any of those polls or topics.

    I am a big fan, (so take that into account,) and I'll freely admit that their live approach is unique among rock acts, but I think their studio work is underestimated. They themselves were never satisfied with it, but they do have some really excellent albums, and several very good ones as well. Their songs are more and more appreciated as such rather than as touchstones to their jams or some kind of traveling hippie revival carnival
     
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  10. SurrealCereal

    SurrealCereal Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    I would say that that's because, for the most die hard fans, it is the endless supply of unique live shows that defines the band, not their studio albums. Because of this, there is not much in the way of a consensus on what is the best. They have no Dark Side of the Moon or Abbey Road because everyone has a different show (many of which remain unreleased) that they consider to be the gold standard. It's typically only the die hards that have heard enough Grateful Dead music to name something aside from Live/Dead or American Beauty which, as good of albums as they are, don't really stand a chance in these kinds of polls when put up against the likes of Rumours or Sgt Pepper. The Grateful Dead are pretty much the definition of a cult act, and the insane quantity of material to be listened to lends itself to ongoing discussion.
     
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  11. Thievius

    Thievius Blue Oyster Cult-ist

    Location:
    Syracuse, NY
    I think of the studio albums sort of like a template or framework for what they presented and built upon on stage. The songs are the same at their core, but live is where they really let them become...something else.
     
  12. Black Thumb

    Black Thumb Yah Mo B There

    Location:
    Reno, NV
    We've got more than 2000 shows to talk about. That's gonna generate a lot of posts.
     
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  13. ishkabibble

    ishkabibble Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    I think because the people who like the music would rather listen to it and talk about it in relation to itself than vote on its quality compared to other bands. Most people who are on the Grateful Thread would rather talk about the differences between the band in, say, '72 and '77 than rank the GD in comparison to other bands. The only competition is with the band itself and even then there are only winners.
     
    texron, scottM, adamos and 13 others like this.
  14. ducksdeluxe

    ducksdeluxe A voice in the wilderness.

    Location:
    PNW
    Another aspect of the Grateful Thread is the intersections of multiple subsets of the band's fan base. There are a handful of older Heads that saw shows way back in the Pigpen years and some youngsters that were in diapers at the end of the run. And some of us have some great stories to tell about the touring years. Let me tell you about the 1984 Ventura run, or the show in '78 where a drunken Warren Zevon-third billed that day-was berating the Deadheads about their lack of enthusiasm. Stuff like that. And new folks keep arriving and contributing. It's my home away from home.
     
  15. LOL

    Most Deadheads I know; including myself do not seek “approval” of their musical preferences via external validation like SHF polls - when it comes to Grateful Dead music, though I enjoy the polls for all my other music interests.

    Peer reccomendations and “ word of mouth “ praise is the priority.

    Knowing that this is “baked-in” ; many of us consider any poll results as invalidated right at the launching pad.

    It’s more important to know whether one is on the bus -or not. That poll - that rolls - is the only one that counts.

    LOL

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  16. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    I should point out too that there are a lot of GD fans on this forum who do not even post much in the Grateful Thread (or they once were active on it and aren't any more but are still around here getting into other topics.)

    I can probably name 5-10 names off the top of my head, by extrapolation there should be even more than those.

    So maybe the GD fan presence here is even greater than it seems at first glance?
     
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  17. notesofachord

    notesofachord Riding down the river in an old canoe

    Location:
    Mojave Desert
    Yummy.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Dominick

    Dominick Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    What a long strange thread it will be...
     
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  19. PretzelLogic

    PretzelLogic Feeling duped by MoFi? You probably deserve it.

    Location:
    London, England
    Not a fan, but this seems a good enough place to mention that in the official Twin Peaks book (which is written in the style of a FBI dossier) that accompanies the recent series, there’s a couple of passages on The Dead. There’s one that describes the hilarious curmudgeonAlbert Rosenfeld (played by the late Miguel Ferrer) as a huge audiophile and jazz aficionado, but likes The Dead enough to consider them ‘the best bad garage band’.

    The other places Dr Jacoby (Russ Tamblyn) as spending his time after the second series ended in the 90s as The Dead’s ‘Tour Doctor’ at the personal invitation of one of the band.
     
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  20. Crispy Rob

    Crispy Rob Cat Juggler

    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Because there's something happening here, and you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?
     
  21. Close the thread. Goodnight everyone.
     
  22. john lennonist

    john lennonist There ONCE was a NOTE, PURE and EASY...

    I list "American Beauty" is in every "Top 10 Albums" thread that I ever participate in... and I list the Dead in every "10 Favorite Bands" thread that I ever participate in, so...


    (And, FWIW, the Dead album that I think is the most underrated is "From the Mars Hotel".)


    It all rolls into one and nothing comes for free,
    There's nothing you can hold, for very long.

    And when you hear that song come crying like the wind,
    It seems like all this life was just a dream.

    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
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  23. john lennonist

    john lennonist There ONCE was a NOTE, PURE and EASY...


    This is about as good a summation as I have seen in this thread. :agree:

    .
     
  24. SBegonias17

    SBegonias17 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    It is certainly the live dynamic that drives conversation among fans of the Grateful Dead. Can you see long discussions regarding any of the peers about what version of which song is the best?

    In terms of polling on best albums of all time, it’s pretty fair to say their only contenders would be Live/Dead, Workingman’s Dead, and American Beauty. All three albums are from a certain era of the band, and predate their real peak as a live band (1972-1974). They were a very good studio band, but the real magic was played live.

    Furthermore there’s the cultural component that really does lend itself to discussion.
     
  25. lucan_g

    lucan_g Forum Resident

    The bus came by...
     
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