Grateful Dead "Live Dead"..coming to Mofi?

Okay, I take it back. I have been in a non-stop Dead groove for months now.

 

I've posted this quote from another thread to this one as this seems to be the Live/Dead, MFSL remix thread.

I like the new mix. I wasn't aware of the new mix until this MFSL mastering but I like it.

TommyTunes did present me with a great challenge, though. I bought green Warner Bros. label copy of Live/Dead in 1974 and I've never thought much of it. It didn't sound that great. Wonderful music but Skull & Roses was a better sounding live record to me. In fact, I gave away that copy to a young record collector when I got the MFSL release. But what about a WLP version? Could there be a good sounding copy of the original mix of Live/Dead?

The answer is yes, underlined and exclamation point, yes! I found a WLP version of Live/Dead rated VG+ on the Interwebs and I bought it. Boy, it does sound nice. It totally smokes my 1974 copy. It sounds so much like they're playing on a stage, it's scary. The interplay of the members off each other is totally there. It truly is a band recording. There is great depth, a nice left-right stereo image with people not locked into the middle, something that's rare to hear and I like on a live recording, sufficient dynamics and a strong bass. The mix remains murky but that's part of its charm. There is a Grateful Dead stew cooking here. Sometimes the carrots float to the top, other times it's the onions, but the meat-vegetable mix always remains consistently strong. I want to thank TommyTunes for recommending a WLP version. He reintroduced me to a record I'd given up on four decades ago.

But I still like the MoFi version. Yes, it's a remix. It's a totally different experience. It's much more intimate and involving to me. You can hear the individual players better. I can see the trees for the forest and that's sometimes hard with the original mix. They both are totally enjoyable and satisfying. I don't get where TommyTunes calls the MFSL version "flat and lifeless." That's hardly my experience. In fact, being a more intimate presentation, I find it full of life...and driving rock 'n' roll. The remix is up front and in your face, as opposed to being laid back like the original mix. The depth difference is striking that way. The sound from the original mix all comes from behind the speakers. The sound from the MFSL remix all comes from at least the plane of the speakers if not from in front of them.

Remixing their stuff is a Grateful Dead tradition. I know Anthem of the Sun and Aoxomoxoa have both been remixed. Songs from the October '74 Winterland shows have seen at least five different releases with five different mixes (Steal Your Face LP, Steal Your Face CD, Grateful Dead Movie Soundtrack CD, Grateful Dead Movie original Garcia audio mix, Grateful Dead Movie 5.1 mix). Hunter's first two solo records were remixed for their CD release.

Maybe Rhino should do a RSD release of the original mix of Live/Dead. I'm surprised they haven't already. It seems like a natural for them.

 

Excuse my ignorance, but which pressing is the "WLP" version? Do you have a catalog number and matrix codes?

Thanks!

 

Kate Bush and Concrete Blonde are some of those who have some audiophile quality albums that deserve better treatment.

 

This comparison intrigues me. How is a promo so vastly different than a first press? Shouldn't they be from the same stampers?

 

As much as I like Live/Dead, and various format releases would appeal to folks here (I don't understand the acronyms used; is there a master acronym list somewhere?), I can't get over the poor tuning on portions of Live/Dead. Phil is flat on the intro to Dark Star to my ears. Be it intonation or tuning, it buggers me. My guess is his D string is a tad flat - this depends on how he voiced his part.

 

Logically yes but in this case there is a substantial difference between the W7 and the WLP. Why beats me, I got mine back in 1979 and since then I've picked up numerous W7 pressings and none sounds like it.

 

First off sorry to cut out half your post, just wanted to address this one part.

I respect your opinion, everyone likes different things. Let me say I do have a w7 WLP, a w7 greenie, the 2003 Rhino reissue and the 2011 Rhino box. Like most of us I grew up with the original mix. The thing that always stood out to me on that mix was the guitars. Jerry's at time just screams out of the speakers on some of his runs. Bobby is right there with him. On the MoFi, to me it sounds like Jerry is standing behind the band he's too muted. Phil is up front and the mix seems a little too bass heavy. Something about the balance of the mix is off to me too. Its been awhile since I went back and listened so I may have to give it another try. Those were my initial impression of the MoFi. Just too different from what I was use to, so for me its a miss. YMMV.

 

Rob303 & Archtop, sorry for my unexplained use of acronyms but WLP stands for White Label Promo. As Rkellner points out, they are early pressings, designed to go to radio stations, reviewers and whomever might want to promote the record. Whether they'd be the exact same master as first pressings, well, maybe. It depends on what they used to stamp the records. The matrix number for my side 1 differs from the Discogs listing for this press but sides 2, 3 and 4 are the same. Matrix numbers aren't even consistent within the promo run.

Live/Dead - Grateful Dead
Catalog # - 2WS 1830
Year - 1969

Side 1 is backed by side 4
Side 2 is backed by side 3

Matrix numbers (all hand written):
Side 1: 39602 2WS 1830-1E A1
Side 2: 39603 2WS 1830B-1B
Side 3: 39604 2WS 1830C-1B
Side 4: 39605 2WS 1830D-1B

Only Side 1 has any thing else etched into the dead wax other than the matrix number, and the A 1 on that side is from another hand.

 

The cover of my promo copy is the same as a regular press. After each of these pictures is a link for a high res version.

Front:

high res version

Back:

high res version

Inside:

high res version

 

Thanks for the clarification!

I have the same press. Although mine is pretty shiny with some hairlines, boy is it noisy! I've cleaned via ultrasonic bath and VPI 16.5 to no avail.

 

Don't you think that post may have been at least partially tongue in cheek? Or maybe just ignorant. I have their Doolittle SACD, of an album that's 25 years old. OK, so it was only 20 years old or something when MoFi put it out. I'm not all that enthused about this announcement myself, but I can understand why a lot of people are.

 

You're welcome.

My copy is surprisingly quiet considering it was obviously well played. Only Side 4 was annoying in terms of noise, and even then, not that much. I did use multiple voodoo juices on it with my VPI cleaner. I don't know if having enzymes makes any difference in the MoFi fluid but I think soaking a record in soapy water for 15 minutes most likely does.

 

Is Live/Dead scheduled for release on MoFi SACD?

 

As of now they didn't announce it on SACD.

 

Completely understood and respected.

A mix is often like a comfortable shoe. It fits you. I felt that way about Hunter's remix of Tales of The Great Rum Runners. I disliked the CD remix intensely. On the other hand, his remix of Tiger Rose, a better record and one of my favorite non-band releases, was a great improvement.

It's just Live/Dead was never my record. Skull & Roses and Europe '72 were. I had both of them on 8-track in my Pinto during high school and college. In a perverse way, those two records should always sound like they did back then. To fit it onto the 8-track tape, Pigpen's "Hurts Me Too" from Europe '72 was faded out and then faded back in right in the middle of Garcia's guitar solo. It's now been almost 45 years and still, when Jerry plays through without fading away, it somehow sounds wrong.

And as long as we're at it, don't let this controversy over Live/Dead steer anyone away from MoFi's LP remaster of Skull & Roses. It is phenomenal. While it certainly isn't a remix, it is the later transfer, but one that's been with us for 30 years. "Bertha" doesn't fade in. Everything generated from this copy of the master tape, be it a vinyl copy I stumbled into in the late 1980s or the first CD release in 1987, before the album was brickwalled in the Golden Road box set, sounds terrific. The MoFi vinyl sounds even better. It is wonderful. I just listened to it this morning. Happy Thanksgiving indeed!

 

Pinto? You rode a horse in high school? Actually, I had a girlfriend back in the old days that drove a Pinto. She later traded up to a larger car, the Maverick

 

You drove your girlfriend like a horse in high school? Now I'm the one who's confused. Plus watch out. This is a family forum.

 

Just wanted to say I'm by no means a Grateful Dead aficionado, although I probably have 300+ albums and CD's, they just happen to be a band I collect. I didn't realize that the MOFI was a different mix., I just thought it didn't sound great compared to the WLP.

 

I'm a little confused about the Live/Dead remix issue. How come it was never made "public", at least that I can easily find, that the LP was remixed. The 2001 CD in the Golden Road Box set doesn't mention remix, yet at least, going from memory, Dark Star does have a different sound from the early releases vs. the Rhino and MFSL LP.

How are we 100% sure it was a remix or something else? I know there is another thread or two on this subject, but usually certain sources (like deaddisc.com) have the best information - and no mention of a remix that I can find.

Actually - I did find this and wonder if somehow the mentioned "original mix by the band" got replaced on the LP by chance. Here is a quote from http://deadessays.blogspot.com/2010/09/live-vs-studio-dead-1967-69.html :

EDIT update - I just pulled out my original Warners CD and the 2001 Rhino CD, and yes the mix is WAY different. So, it may have been an inadvertent (unspoken?) use of possibly the original Dead mix I quote above that was found and replaced from the original LP mix that had Garcia more in your face (when soloing)? In fact Phil's bass sounds so much different on the new mix (and even distorts/buzzes where it doesn't on the original release).

 

Love the Pinto comment, my first car was a '77 Nova (**** brown to boot).

I concur. I think all of the other Grateful Dead Mofi's (AB 33.3 & 45, Mars Hotel, Wake, In The Dark, Skull & Roses) are outstanding.

 

Well besides the fact this thread started a few years ago.......heh!
I was responding to a forum member who had a puzzling tendency to crap on a lot of threads for his own twisted amusement. He was not being tongue in cheek. He would deliberately stir stuff up for no reason. I'd forgotten about him.
I think he finally disappeared, as I hope others like him will eventually do after they get bored.