Haven't we been talking about comparing Vic's masters to the ones on the Magic CD, which do not match the ones on the LP?
Somebody correct me if I have any of this wrong: 1) The Way They Were issued on vinyl in 1976 on RCA. 2) Share The Land issued on CD in 2000 on Buddha with different mixes of Palmyra and The Answer as bonus tracks. 3) The Way They Were reissued on CD in 2001 on Magic, possibly unofficially (needledrop?), using the same mixes as the original LP. 4) Anthology issued in 2003 on RCA/BMG with the mix of The Answer first issued on the Buddha Share The Land CD. The question is where the mixes of Palmyra and The Answer came from that were apparently first issued in 2000.
Don't forget the other 3 songs from The Way They Were that were released as bonus tracks on the Buddha cd reissue of Canned Wheat : Species Hawk Silver Bird Miss Frizzy <released in error on 1st pressings instead of Species Hawk> Also, although I'm not sure, the poster may have been saying that the French cd itself sounded different from the original TWTW vinyl album. The way it's worded, I kind of get that from his quote : "Haven't we been talking about comparing Vic's masters to the ones on the Magic CD, which do not match the ones on the LP?"
Indeed. Those are all different mixes from their original TWTW counterparts. I'm not sure if the debate is whether or not the "Buddhas" are remixes vs. vintage alternate mixes, or simply who did them (or used them elsewhere: Anthology), but, if we're talking the former, I might bet ten cents that the Buddha Bonuses were contemporary remixes. They just seem to have a more modern aesthetic to me. Centered lead vocals on some of the newer versions vs. split or ADT'd on the older ones, drier vs. wetter, etc. All speculation of course.
And that contradicts other posts, that indicate the LP and Magic CD match. This came up because it was suggested that because Vic Anesini remixed those tracks, and he is in charge of the new American Woman CD, his remixes will be used again. Except he wasn't involved in their initial release, nor is he in charge of the new American Woman CD. Nor do we know when those mixes were made. Or when the mixes released on the original TWTW album were made, for that matter.
Well, at the very least, we know that TWTW mixes were made somewhere between 1970 and 1976. Hence, my speculation that the 2000 "Buddhas" had a more contemporary feel to them (than that), and thus might be modern remixes.
Well I certainly never said they did, in fact I said otherwise; Sherman, turn the wayback machine back to post #553...
I suppose another (admittedly baseless) scenario could be that, somehow, the Buddha bonus tracks were based on circa 1970 original/rough/discarded mixes, while Jack Richardson simply remixed them (again) when it was time for the 1976 TWTW release. This could also explain why the seemingly unfinished Take The Long Way Home was just cobbled and looped together for the '76 release, while an "original" mix didn't even exist for it (and ultimately wasn't used for the Buddha series). That might also explain why no specific remix credits were given for the Buddhas, IIRC. Though, if that were the case, I would still have to question why Jack "souped" some of those tracks up so much for the '76 release. Mastering aside, most of the Buddha mixes seem cleaner and simpler to me. Too much speculation though on my part. At the end of the day, at least as it pertains to the upcoming release at hand.....the question is which mixes are being used here???
Turning it back: Is it, or isn't it? I don't have either release. Here's The Answer from an unknown source. Possibly the Magic CD? Opening guitar in the left channel, drums in mono with lots of reverb, piano right. Vocals continue until fade at 3:53. And here's a different mix, from what seems to be the Buddha Share The Land CD. Opening guitar center, drums in stereo without all of the reverb, piano center, backing vocals wider. Hard to say for certain, but it seems there are some minor dropouts in stereo that suggest a transfer from a vintage tape, rather than a new remix. Vocals faded out after 3:26, extended fade to about 4:05. This mix is also on Anthology. What mixes are on the original The Way They Were LP and the Magic CD of the same? If I was a betting man, I'd say the Share The Land/Anthology mix sounds much more like a 1970 mix to me, but of course that doesn't mean it was necessarily used in 1976.
Luke, I know you, been reading your stuff since BSN and ICE were my only real sources for info. You are tenacious, and will stick to your facts with amazing memory and clarity (I also know, if two Beatle fans are discussing something and you jump in, well, we're gonna be here all day, aren't we...). But, I simply don't have access to Richardon's LP at the moment, so I cannot check. My memory from hearing it in 1976 (!) is a lot different from my first impressions from the French CD, and even recall some lengths being different. So I've been asking this question at least since 2002 or so, where'd it come from, because my memories, with nothing else to go on, are different. One poster here, calls it a needledrop; well, if so, it sounds a lot better than the source material, how can that be. A measure longer here, whole phrases longer there, doesn't match up. And these are all impressions before any of the Buddha remasters, which I know were done later anyway; irrelevant. So, I know I have more important stuff to do today; the leaves are piling up (and I don't even have a tree! ), and we have leftovers to plow into - oh, and pie-! ) So, if you don't mind, I'll just keep awaiting a specific answer relevant to the two versions I'm curious about, and get around to finding my turntable and the "Gi-He" box when that part of the house is ready for acommodating shelves of grooves. And, if I find out something, I'll get back to ya.
I suggested that the French cd was a needle drop purely on the notion that Guess Who's management, or whoever owns the rights and/or tapes to "The Way They Were" would license them plus send the masters all the way to France to some little rinky-dink reissue label whose main artist that they release is the Spotnicks!!! And THEN, to also send them whatever tapes/materials they needed to REMIX the thing? Preposterous! Magic Records (2) Unless - it was some kind of "inside" job - someone very close to the source material who worked out a deal of some sort with this label.. Someone should go to Burton Cumming's Facebook page and ask him if he knows anything about it or anything at all about that album and it's release/mixing history. You never know unless you try. I used to have the original album back when cd's didn't exist and just didn't care for it at all. It got traded in right quick. I felt the same way about the bonus tracks on the Buddha cd's - meh. It's the mystery of the thing that intrigues me. Things like this seem to come up periodically and then vanish without resolution eventually because either nobody's talking or those that would know never even got the memo or are long gone from this earth. Edit - I just thought of something. The Buddha cd reissues with the bonus tracks culled from The Way They Were were released in 2000. The French cd of TWTW was released in 2001. Coincidence? A leak of some sort from Buddha? Hmmm.....
I have direct experience with Magic in regards to their Tin Tin reissues a few years back. They were both needledrops as the owner of the company claims they couldn't find the mastertapes. I provided them with the bonus tracks for the Astral Taxi reissue. I tried to provide them Flac files for them but he insisted on mp3s. I also offered my already completed needledrop for Astral Taxi but he declined. My guess is that the Guess Who cd is a needledrop as well.
I wouldn't waste a second of my time with Burton on Facebook. He had some rather disparaging remarks about the Troiano lineup, that were as far from being subjective and respectful as you can get.
Folks, I've corresponded with someone @ Iconoclassic, and he said he will look into this, regarding the different mixes. I wouldn't be surprised if the different mixes were from 1970 (rough mixes made during the sessions) and again in 1976 (specifically for the album). Those Buddha discs might be worth holding onto
Can you sneak in a question for me. I 'd appreciate the effort- or should I say The Answer-) Will the single edits of American Woman and No Sugar Tonight be the hit mono radio singles or the commercial stereo 45's.
Listening to my copy of the French TWTW, and really appreciating disc 2 of the upcoming set. This thing's bright enough to blind a polar bear in a blizzard. Jeez.
Scratch that question, the US promo and stock copy are stereo. UK is mono. I have a copy of all 3 45's.
Some interesting detective work - 'The Answer' from 'Share The Land' and 'Anthology' is indeed a remix (both projects took place before my time) - our version, pulled from the master, matches what Jack (Richardson) allowed me to pull from his archives eight years ago - I don't have the vinyl of 'The Way They Were' handy but I do have the Magic cd which has, on first listen, 'The Answer' with the original mix (the one we're using) but with a layer of reverb slapped on to it -