Guns N' Roses 'Chinese Democracy' album discussion Part 2

Continued from here:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=145843

 

Heh, some continuation.

Of all the new material I purchased last year...(it was last year wasn't it...er, nope, end of 2008...close enough), I have listened to this one most frequently. Easily.

My boy and I are chillin' here listening to it and man it's great. Aside from the very derivitive Elton John ballads (there aren't as many as first blush would suggest) it's just fantastic. I think this will have as much staying power for me as GnR's other music.

I still find Sorry to be one of the best on the album. I have begun to enjoy I.R.S. more than I previously did, and I still can't figure out why eveyone seems to think Prostitute is one of the stronger song. I think it's a fairly weak song but somehow a decent closer with its "positive feel" sound to it. I'm just not a fan of it until the chorus kicks in (that small guitar bridge/solo is pretty sweet too). I could ditch the melody.

 

I think he had Paul Buckmaster do some of the strings, hence the Elton John sound.

I think CD is pretty strong, if a little long. I actually really like some of those piano tunes like "There Was A Time" & "Catcher In The Rye".

I wonder how long it will take for Axl to put on the next album.

 

I agree, I've listened to Chinese Democracy more than any other new release from the '09/10 release period. I find that the album has a lot of depth, is loaded with melodies, and contains well crafted songs. IMO, Prostitute is a masterpiece and stands alongside GNR's best work from any era.

 

It took me a while but I can actually dig "There Was A Time" but "Catcher In The Rye" is probably my least favorite tune. Maybe. It's in the bottom tier for sure. I think it's just because of how "old" it sounds. That could have been a David Bowie/Elton John/Rod Stewart hit easily. Not that I dislike those guys but I've heard their songs before, you know?

Nice way to phrase it. Loads of depth. Tons of melodies and some superbly crafted songs. Can you tell me what it is about Prostitute that makes you think it's a masterpiece?

 

Still love it. Wish it would've gotten the attention it deserves (post-release, anyway), but part of that blame falls on Axl himself for failing to promote it in any way, as well as to Best Buy for completely botching the release.

 

CD could have been the greatest album of all time and it still would have been panned--the "legend" behind it combined with the fact that it was labeled GNR yet didn't feature Slash pretty much ensured that 90% of listeners would never be able to go into it with an open mind. Personally I find it at the very least on par with the two UYI albums. The strongest songs on UYI are better than the best stuff here, but there really isn't any filler on CD.

 

I would say the best songs from Use Your Illusion are better, but Chinese Democracy has much less filler than those albums. Anyone that likes those albums will like Chinese Democracy a lot.

In other news, the CD can now be picked up at your local Best Buy for $4.99. The Best Buy I just visited had tons of copies in a clearance bin near the front registers for that price. Best Buy must be looking to clear out the massive amount of stock they manufactured for this exclusive CD.

 

I pretty much agree with this. There are a couple songs I don't like, but there's nowhere near the amount of filler there is on the UYI albums.

 

Nothing like that for me. It's all ballads to me. That has nothing to do with Slash not being in the band. All slow easy listening ballads and what one or two "rock" songs on there, they're totally generic.

Ballads should be the exception, not the rule, if you are claiming to be a "rock" band.

 

I just searched the Best Buy site and couldn't find a link to buy Chinese Democracy. It appears that Best Buy wants to distance itself from it. When I bought a new tv last month, the store I went to had hundreds of copies in its racks, and the clerk said that there were tons more in the back storeroom. Due to the deal they made apparently BB is unable to return them to Universal.

It's an interesting lp, but the production sounds dated and the arrangements are overworked. I've heard reports that it cost up to $35 Million to make, not sure if Michael Jackson spent more on any of his records, but its right up there as being the most expensive record of all time. I guess time will tell if it turns out to be a lost masterpiece like The Beach Boys "Smile".

 

I'm right there with you! Totally love this album, front to back. No matter the backstory, its just impeccably well-crafted and layered. One of my favorites of the past several years without a doubt!

 

It would have gotten more attention had the release date note changed so many times. And should it really be called GNR? I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere.

 

It's been discussed to death.

I'm sure there are groups of people who refused to listen to it because it's not the original (or UYI) line-up, and also people who downloaded it and listened to it once out of curiosity. These people give the illusion that the album has been received poorly, below expectations, etc... However, the album has actually done well on a worldwide scale (in the top 10 in sales despite only being released for a little over a month) and in reviews.

What's my point? Most people who have actually sat down and listened to it with an open mind usually have at least something good to say about the songs.

 

Yeah, that was/is the key...I know plenty of people who were ready and willing to listen, but only because they couldn't wait to make fun of it (due being die-hard 'Appetite' lineup fans or just interested in the whole circus of the album...or both). They listened for 10 seconds, said it sucked, and never listened again. Oh well, their loss.

 

If the album had come out in a normal time frame after the last Guns' album, it would have received a lot of acclaim and popularity. Much of the original fanbase seems to have moved on and grown up, but they are missing out.

 

but ballads don't automatically mean "bad music". Take GNR for instance, Patience, November Rain and Don't Cry are all great IMO.

 

It could be. Because Chinese Democracy sounds an AWFUL lot like the two "Use Your Illusion" CD's, does it not??

 

If "ballads" equates to those three songs, then it most assuredly is bad music in my book. "November Rain" is the very definition of overblown. I was just about ready to buy a copy for $4.99 until nodeerforamonth offered the opinion that it was a ballads album. G'n'R ballads? No thanks...

 

It's not all ballads, but some of the "power ballads" are very good IMO in UYI type way. You can listen to some samples here http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:kcftxzwkldje. Guns N' Roses as most of us know them really ended after The Spaghetti Incident in 1993. I know Izzy isn't on the record, but it's all covers, so it still pretty much "sounds" like GNR (FWIW, one of my favorite GNR tunes is their cover of the Dead Boys "Ain't It Fun". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3yqEAXsKiY Now that rocks).

Chinese Democracy is really an Axl solo album, even though all the other original members quit, and I know Axl would disagree. If you except it as that, you may enjoy it more. There a couple tracks I don't like, and a few I feel that are overproduced, but there are some really fine songs as well.

Re: "November Rain", I really liked the song when UYI came out, and it was just an album track. There is a heavy Elton John & ELO influence on that track that I did not expect from GNR. It also surprised me how well Axl could play piano and write tunes on his own. What ruined the song for me was the overblown video which was on MTV constantly. For years it was all that I would think of when I heard the song. I appreciate the song again though, and always enjoy it when it pops up on my Ipod. I still think "Estranged" is the best GNR piano song though.

 

Just picked this CD up at Best Buy. It is currently on sale for $4.99. Couldn't resist.

One thing you can notice right away, this CD is not compressed to death and the music has plenty of room to breathe. This is a welcome change from your standard rock/pop/metal CD these days.

Haven't finished listening yet, but so far I find it pretty decent.

Definitely worth the $5 if you don't have it yet.

 

Yeah the songs are decent. It's not a bad album. The thing that strikes me about ALL the songs though, is he tries to cram every single G'n'R song archetype into EVERY song. Each song has a ballad part, a really rocking part, a guitar solo, etc. But not in a masterful, "hey it's a prog song with movements" sort of way. In an overstuffed, crammed with too many ideas sort of way.

 

Hi all. Long time lurker - seldom post. Anyway I saw a thread on slickdeals about Best Buy blowing out GNR "Chinese Democracy" at $1.99.

I found one copy of the cd and one copy of the vinyl on the shelf tagged $12.99 for the vinyl and a similar amount for the cd. I asked the cashier to scan them and they both came up $1.99.

So anyone who want's to pick up either the cd or the vinyl should head on over to Best Buy since it looks like they really want to get this behind them.

PS I feel almost silly buying the vinyl since I don't have a turntable but the album cover art is okay and I wanted to show my kids how music used to be packaged.

 

Damn that's a blowout for an album that might have been huge.... had it come out in the 90's. Some good tunes on there.

 

I'd love to get the vinyl for 1.99, but the album wasn't a Best Buy exclusive here in Canada so I doubt it will be marked down. The CD sounded so good that I didn't even consider picking up the vinyl when it was released.