Guns N' Roses - Chinese Democracy - Discussion

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Uly Gynns, Jul 18, 2014.

  1. Tom H

    Tom H Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ewa Beach, Hawaii
    Hard to believe this debate still rages. I liked Appetite and the Illusion albums. Everything else by GnR is utterly forgettable IMO.

    As for the name, I guess the current GnR lineup is more legit than those clowns calling themselves Lynyrd Skynyrd.
     
  2. 905

    905 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern IL
    I listened to some of Chinese Democracy yesterday thanks to this thread, and Catcher was the standout for me.
     
  3. kohoutek

    kohoutek Well-Known Member

    It's even better live--there's a version from a Tokyo show a few years back that smokes...
     
    905 likes this.
  4. vinylphile

    vinylphile Forum Resident

    "Come to terms"? "Heartbreak"? :laugh::biglaugh:

    Good one!



    :rolleyes:
     
  5. Rodz42

    Rodz42 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    True, but drugs weren't the person that made those ridiculous over the top songs on the illusion albums that sound like a bad attempt at Elton John or Queen. He started taking them on a ****ty bloated direction IMHO. That for sure helped cause the friction which broke the band up. I remember seein em live in the late 80's and then on the Illusion Tour with Metallica/Faith No More. It was night and day the difference.
     
  6. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo

    Location:
    California
    Which band recorded Use Your Illusion I and Use Your Illusion II? Was it a band with Dizzy Reed as a fully integrated member of the band from the get go? The answer is, yes, from the get go, Dizzy was fully integrated during recording and touring during this period.

    Rodz42's perception about GNR in 1990 beginning to characterize GNR as a band that records and performs epic piano based songs rings true with people not because GNR hired a bit player to play keyboards. Rodz42's quote rings true with people because the band actually took the step to hire a band member who would co-produce and play piano, clavinet, organ, and other keyboards on such tracks that characterize this period of the band. This 1990-1993 period of the band stands in stark contrast to earlier lineups because the band added a new member who played keyboards and helped produce their recordings. No one would compare this era of the band to Queen and Elton John if keyboards were a minor part of the GNR scene.

    As it happened, Dizzy Reed was a fantastic tinkler of the ivories and such. Dizzy's work made the 1990-1991 recording and touring and 1991-1993 touring lineups work magic due to his help transforming the band from a guitar, bass, and drums based band to one that fully integrated keyboards to complete the scene.
     
  7. vinylphile

    vinylphile Forum Resident

    That's all fine and good. I agree their sound changed and they were more versatile on Illusion. I actually prefer Illusion to Appetite, to tell you the truth.

    I have nothing against Dizzy - I don't really know that much about him and I'm basically a moderate GnR fan.

    Sure, he was a member of the Illusion band, I am not saying he wasn't. I was wrong when I said Axl was the ONLY link to the past.

    But my overall impression has not changed. Dizzy is a core major contributing and songwriting member to Axl's current band. On Illusion, he did none of the songwriting and according to the album credits appeared on less than half the songs. On roughly half of those he was doing nothing more than backing vocals. Sure he's in the band pic but his contributions were relatively minor. When I saw them on the Illusion tour I had no clue who Dizzy Reed even was. Everyone I knew still looked at Guns as a five-piece.

    To me this latest album by "Guns n Roses" is "Guns n Roses" in name only. That's how I see and hear it. And I'm not alone. To focus on this Dizzy issue is to not see the forest from the trees.
     
    Rodz42 likes this.
  8. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    the band might be GNR now in name only but i don't think the music is all that different from what it would soumd like if izzy, slash and duff were there. you would have a few more stripped back tunes and country style tunes but look at the contrast of styles on the illusion releases
     
  9. ghostnotes

    ghostnotes Forum Resident

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I disagree with that idea, not necessarily in terms of composition but certainly in terms of sound. Axl spent over a decade making sure there was absolutely no room to breathe on this thing whatsoever and I'm not sure the original lineup would have stood for it if they were still together (evidenced by at least the work Slash and Duff have been involved with in the last 10-15 years). To me the grandiosity of the arrangements in Use Your Illusion 1 & 2 work because the band/producers weren't afraid of letting the songs settle in, groove, and breathe on their own.

    "Music is the space between the notes." Debussy
     
  10. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia

    well the sound would have been different but also i think a lot of overdubs would still by done. i think they would have had izzy, slash and 1 other guy, maybe paul tobias plus axl, dizzy, duff, sorum and maybe 1 other keyboard player. if the album came out around 2000 or so it would have sounded pretty dense. so look at the song "oh my god". i think they took months to make it sound like that.
     
  11. John Bonham

    John Bonham Forum Resident

    Bumblefoot: "the reign of doom is over."

    Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal interviewed in Thailand.
    He jokes about not having to play with them anymore (GNR) and no more of "this song" (Sweet Child O' Mine).
    That the "reign of doom" is over.

    http://pattaya103.com/guns-n-roses-ron-bumblefoot-thal-interview-thailand/

     
    Matthew Tate likes this.
  12. I must say, I keep coming back to this album. I enjoyed it when it first came out and then kind of left it for awhile but with the reunion stuff I've been listening to it again and I think it really holds up. I don't really care whether what the lineup was that recorded it, if the music is good that's what matters to me and I really think this is an album that should be appreciated more than it was at the time. Maybe time will be kind to it. And "Better" is still a fantastic song.
     
  13. The Hud

    The Hud Seventh Hud of a Seventh Hud

    I agree, great album with "Better" being the highlight.
     
  14. Agent 34

    Agent 34 Active Member

    Location:
    UK
    Chinese Democracy will have the best deluxe boxset of any album one day. There are even live versions of CD songs with Slash and Duff on them now to add to the Brian May demos and two albums' worth of unreleased songs!
     
  15. Leigh Burne

    Leigh Burne Well-Known Member

    Location:
    London, UK
    Considering G n' R have never done any special edition re-releases of any of their albums, I won't be holding my breath on that.
     
  16. 4stringking73

    4stringking73 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    Brilliant album, most people that bash it probably have not sat down and actually listened to the whole album. I spin it more than any other Guns album.
     
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  17. Vinyl Fan 1973

    Vinyl Fan 1973 Forum Resident

    I love CD, and I was just watching the clips on YouTube of them doing the title track in Vegas. I love Slash's playing on the CD stuff. Hell I'd buy the album all over again just to hear Slash and Duff re-record it.
     
  18. Tyler Chastain

    Tyler Chastain Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Tacoma
    Bought CD on day one (still in boxes that I had to open with a pocket knife). Guess I shouldn't have expected UYI type lines at the Best Buys. I did get my free Dr. Pepper though.

    It was hard to accept the absence of the original Band at first, but the songs are phenomenal. Yeah, it may be overstuffed and excessive but so was UYI. Sorry, Better and Prostitute are some of the best songs any line up of GNR has put out. The mastering is fantastic for an album circa 2008 as well. Better mastered that the original UYI CDs in my opinion (the MFSLs were quite good though).

    They played CD, Better, This I Love and Catcher in the Rye when I saw them in Seattle the other night. Catcher was really well done, Slash captured the feel of that song better that he did for Better.... Ha
     
  19. TEKWRX

    TEKWRX Active Member

    Location:
    Boynton Beach, FL
    I just picked the LP up from Discogs for $5. I've never heard it aside from some of the leaked tracks, so I'm kind looking forward to it. For that price, why not :)
     
  20. Orthogonian Blues

    Orthogonian Blues Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    That was probably because certain band members were at odds with each other for years. Now they are back on friendly terms (or at least business terms), the way might be open for 'deluxe' issues of the 80s and 90s albums.

    As for a Chinese Democracy reissue - hell yeah. It would be a shame for all those leftovers to go to waste.
     
    Stormrider77 likes this.
  21. dtuck90

    dtuck90 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I didn't realise they were playing Catcher now as well. They really need to play Prostitute now. Axl would kill it the way his vocals are at the moment
     
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  22. Pim

    Pim Forum Resident

    Prostitute might well be in my top 5 of GNR songs. It's just an amazing album - though it could've used some editing here and there.
     
    Use_Your_Koala and dtuck90 like this.
  23. TEKWRX

    TEKWRX Active Member

    Location:
    Boynton Beach, FL
    My copy of CD arrived the other day and I just played it for the first time. As for the content, well it's fine I guess. Not really my cup of tea. I agree with most that this would have been better off as a "solo" Axl Rose project, but whatever. It's fine.

    As for the sound quality, I'm pretty disappointed in my pressing. Everyone says it's a great sounding LP, but not mine. It was brand new, still sealed in the shrink warp and had a Best Buy price sticker on it. The vinyl looked horrible. Looks like liquid staining all over both discs that won't come off even after cleaning with my Record Doctor V RCM. Worst of all, is that the last tracks on each side are listenable. TONS of distortion. So bad I thought there was a problem with my cartridge or stylus, ad switched to my backup. Same issue. I did a quick google search, and I found this guy had the exact same problem GN'R's Chinese Democracy on vinyl is a disaster. • /r/vinyl » but everyone in that thread said he was crazy and theirs sounded great. So I guess I just have bad luck. I don't know if it's worth contacting the seller and dealing with a return for a $5 LP. If I loved the music, I might return it or buy another copy. I give it a few more spins, but I doubt I'll care too much. Oh well :shrug:
     
  24. izombie73

    izombie73 Active Member

    You and me both but I think we may be in the minority! :)
     
    Vinyl Fan 1973 likes this.
  25. izombie73

    izombie73 Active Member

    I bought the LP and CD and played both non-stop for a few weeks. :)
     

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