And now it seems Axl doesn't want to put out any new music. 6 years since CD. Maybe that's a good thing.
Whatever Axl puts out I will be curious to hear because he is a very interesting singwriter and singer, however nowadays he seems content with just touring on old material. One would think a followup to Chinese Democracy wouldn't take another 20 years to put out but like you said we are already 6 years and counting
You obviously don't care that the band made a living on the Sunset Strip years before making it big with their debut album. When did you see them in 1985? They didn't get their Geffen contract by sucking on the Strip for a few years. The core group has always consisted of Axl. The reason for this is that he has been around since the beginning, has put the sweat equity into the band since day one, and continues to make new music with whomever musicians want to make new GNR music. Axl does not care about your worship of any particular lineup or band member. He will continue to lead the band as he has for the past thirty years. The band started with Axl. The band continues to move forward with Axl.
Correction: "a" band continues to move on with Axl. Not "the" band Different core musical identity than the one that actually created the albums and songs that made them what they are equals a different band. Names are irrelavent when the actual music tells a different story. By the way I doubt Geffen would have cared about the '85 lineup with Tracii, it was after the AFD lineup was solidified and writing songs that they got their record deal Again you keep using the word "worship". It isn't worship it is just calling it for what it is
I believe HotelYorba101 made it clear that he doesn't worship any lineup or members. Your theory might have a hint of truth to it, but you forgot one little thing, Izzy. He's the one that came up with the original sound and look of the band ( Hanói Rocks) and he was probably with Axl the most prolific songwriter in the band, once he was gone the band went downhill.
It's not as if nobody heard it before release. Axl dropped by the Roxy when my friends Rev and Breezy were playing there back in 2008, and they partied with him after the show. He played them the album. Note: This is the actual Axl Rose, not - I repeat not - a waxwork replica from Madame Tussauds. The waxwork replica cannot slam tequila shots.
I love the song Better. I hope Robin was paid handsomely for whatever his contribution was to get a co-writing credit. The album as whole was weak. It sound like someone labored for years adding and adding and dubbing and revising and in the end nobody cared. All anyone wanted to hear was the sound of Appetite bouncing in their head like it did way back when. I don't think there will ever be another album or tour with the original lineup. It's done, we and the band have moved on.
Izzy quit in 1991. "Bye bye, buddy. Say hello to Gilby, fellow members of GNR." GNR recorded the same amount of Geffen studio albums with the Gilby The Spaghetti Incident? lineup as they did with the 1987 lineup.
For me, and I'm sure for many people too, the album sounds like a disconnected mix of different sounds put together that sound anything but cohesive and with a band's personality. Considering that it took 14 years to be made and it went through all of Axl's manias and turn arounds with people coming in and out, songs being made and remade, mixed and remixed with parts being recorded and re-recorded over and over in the studio over the years, you would expect that, unfortunately.
And the difference in quality is obvious. The songwriting in CD while good to great in some songs never reaches the Izzy-era level of songwriting.
You keep trying to minimize Axl's history with GNR and would probably minimize his role in the bands AXL and Hollywood Rose too. Axl has been crucial to GNR making the music of Chinese Democracy about what they are today. You don't care about the band's Sunset Strip success because you think that Axl needs any particular member to make music to meet your standards. Axl doesn't care about your corrupt standards for living in past glories. GNR is content to move forward while you prefer to live in 1987. You don't care about thirty years of sweat equity because, ironically, you have a personal problem with people who put the most amount of hard work into a band. You prefer to celebrate the people who have put less time in than Axl Rose. When members leave the band due to their own actions, they renounce their equity in the band name.
Quality doesn't determine sweat equity in a band. Axl has the sweat equity while other past members no longer do.
I am not minimizing, I am putting everything into perspective since you seem unable to. The problem with your arguments is that you are too swept up with ad hominem attacks and baseless stuff like "GNR is content to move forward while you prefer to live in 1987." I mean how can I logically talk with someone who doesn't even read what I post? I never said I didn't care about the Sunset Strip success, I am saying that they only really started getting the big talk on the strip once Slash and the rest of the Appetite lineup was solidified before Geffen signed them. By the way it does not matter why members left, if they are gone that is all that matters. When a band has all but one member who was a direct part of writing the albums and songs that made GNR huge it isn't the same band. Period. It has nothing to do with "moving forward" - I am not commenting on musical quality I am talking about semantics. And by the way "ironically, you have a personal problem with people who put the most amount of hard work into a band" is also a baseless assumption because I have said nothing as such. Show me where I said I have a personal problem with Axl? On a side not: yeah, one album in twenty years plus followed by six years of no release in sight - plus over 4 consecutive years of touring since late 2009 with setlists made up of a majority of songs that the majority of these current members (not counting Dizzy) weren't even around to create. That is a sure sign of "moving forward".... And I am rooting for Axl to put more stuff out. I dig Chinese and I have seen the band in 2011 and in 2012. They may not be the same band but I do like them. But c'mon let's put things into perspective here
Ok well I see we are veering on a different topic entirely regarding the Guns N' Roses band name and semantics regarding that Getting back onto the original topic, Chinese Democracy is not a bad album at all. I have heard some demos of the songs before they came out like a cool version of Catcher in the Rye with Brian May guesting on guitar. And that demo sounds even better than the album version, sometimes less is more with overdubs and layers. I also really like Better, Prostitute, There Was A Time (which features a great Buckethead solo) and the title track. There is some good stuff on there, I just think that if the weak moments of the album were patched up along with better production it would have been that much better
You are overly focused on song writing and studio recording and minimize what actually makes a band work in the long run. GNR has recorded one album since 1993, yet has played to overwhelming success around the world. You would prefer to focus on what the band wrote together in nineteen eighty whatever. If the band couldn't pull off that old material people wouldn't attend their new shows. If the band couldn't simultaneously also pull off the new material in concert, nobody would attend their shows. GNR's artistic credibility has defined them throughout all eras of the band. Not coincidentally, Axl has been a part of all of that artistic success. Axl has defined GNR by his presence, vocal abilities, song writing talents, and commitment to musical excellence. Getting the big talk happened because Axl has been a major talent and has invested his talents in the band from day one. Other members left the band, but Axl is still holding the reigns. The Sunset Strip era doesn't define the band any more than the current lineup. The band moved on because past members were less interested in GNR than Axl. If past members had wanted a stake in GNR's future fortunes and future artistic plan, they would have stayed in the band. When they left the band, they renounced their rights to control its direction. Conversely, Axl has always had a major stake in the direction of the band because of his commitment to GNR. That is why he gets to call GNR's future music GNR. Your major problem is that you are caught up in GNR making it huge twenty six years ago. GNR has been successful, artistically, no matter who Axl plays with in GNR. Thus, their artistic success isn't dependent upon their commercial success.
I am not, commenting on it not being the same band isn't being focused only on past material. It is just that when a band becomes known and big and a real thing in the music industry because of a group of people (no matter how you slice it Slash and company were a huge part in that) not solely just Axl then the fact that nowadays it is Axl and a whole different group of guys it is a different band. Anything else is irrelevant beyond that. They just aren't the same group of guys, that is it. Objectively that is it and all it will ever be. And that is not a slight or a "worship" of any lineup or the other it just is what it is and I accept it for what it is Axl was a part of the big talk, but the big talk and the reason why Geffen paid a shred of attention is because of the music those collective five people that made up the band at that time created and performed. Axl was not the sole reason and will never be the sole reason why GNR is big, because that legacy has been established already and history has proved that to not be the case. That being said Axl is a part of it definitely, but not he alone is why. And the success of the guys that Axl calls "GNR" nowadays is based on that and is dependent on that.
I admit speculation on Axl's success or failure as solo artist, but I think I'm pretty factual in regards to his vocal chops being on the down.
Why do you keep harping on their commercial sucess in 1987 or 1989? That has nothing to do with their future song writing or future conceptual ideas. Axl leading GNR's artistic path in 2014 defines their future, not any past band member or lineup. In concert, they largely play new material to rousing success. Band members who quit in nineteen ninety whatever didn't write any of the GNR material after they left the band.
I am not harping on their commercial success, I am pointing out that that was a different band than this one. Not harping, just pointing out facts. Yes Axl is leading this bands artistic path and this band defines their own future - mostly because it isn't the same band! But rather a different band that tries to latch onto the pas I have seen GNR twice, in 2011 and in 2012 and I would not say that 7 newer songs of a 34 song set is "largely playing new material" personally. And sure past members from the 80's and 90's didn't write those but they did write the other 20+ songs that GNR plays to this day and is largely the reason why people see GNR in the first place and have even heard about them And it is kind of ironic that you say that Axl is leading GNR's artistic path in 2014 where that artistic path this year has been playing with Duff again, still playing mostly old songs that the current members nowadays have no relation to other than being hired to play them long after the fact, and taking 6 years to not release any other new material after a 15 year wait between albums until 2008. That is some artistic path alright.... So I know your posts harp on me for "being stuck in the 80's and 90's" or whatever, but by all accounts it doesn't seem Axl is that far ahead of me in that respect
What doubts do you have about GNR constructing good setlists based upon their entire body of work? Some nights they play more newer material. Some nights they play more older material. Too bad that you had preconceived notions of what makes a good setlist before you went to see them. I find that it's better to enjoy good musical performances than to worry about them playing 8 out of 20 new songs or 13 out of 28 old songs. As far as releasing new music, part of that might be because of fans like you who over analyze what they do release. When you get to the point at which you start to appreciate a band's effort to release good music rather than nitpick, maybe GNR will respond in kind and give you a great new album.
I didn't have preconceived notions about the setlist, that would be your preconceived notions thinking that I had preconceived notions about the set! I was just pointing it out to you after you made a claim that wasn't true. I enjoyed the concerts quite a bit, but you made a claim and I responded with the setlist information. And I am also aware of the setlist traditions GNR have kept since 2012 and their sets have been kept relatively stagnant in terms of song variety for at least a couple of years now. Just making you aware of that since I don't think you are based on what you are posting In regards to your second claim, look this is a music "business". If they don't want to release music for people to buy that is on them, not me. If you are saying that Axl won't release music because some people are nitpicky, well Axl, welcome to the world of music where people get critical sometimes.....
I never heard it, with the exception of "Madagascar" which I heard on Satellite radio once and I liked it. I am not a huge "guns" fan so I couldn't give a rats patooty who did and didn't play on it, so due to this thread, I am going to give it a front to back objective listen and will report back at some point Besides, I have been eager to listen to it for a while based on Bob Ludwigs commentary that Axel chose the mastering he did with full dynamics intact.
You saw two shows with mostly older material. That only speaks for two shows. In the past couple of years, the band has regularly plays a lot of newer material. You saw GNR in concert! Instead of speaking about the quality of performances you chose to try to argue with me about what songs they played. Talk about messed up priorities! Clearly you are on some kind of crusade against Axl, as you have extreme difficulty finding something good to say about him except when he played with band member x in 198x.
