Guns N' Roses - Chinese Democracy - Discussion

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Uly Gynns, Jul 18, 2014.

  1. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Senior Member

    Location:
    California
    Lol not really. I am talking about the setlists because you mentioned setlists first and stated a objectively inaccurate statement. I have commented many times in other topics and posts about my concert experiences, look up my posting history or my posts on various GNR forums if you would like to see them :)

    Look up GNR's setlists from 2012 onward. My point still stands.

    Nope, I am not on a crusade against anyone. Actually I am merely just against people who can't accept that many people don't view this band as the same band. I love Axl, always have, always will. But the one issue I have is the amount of illogical assumptions you make about me in your posts
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
    Ryan Lux likes this.
  2. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    lot to read through but imo this is GNRs 2nd best release after AFD
     
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  3. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    If you don't like GNR's direction, write a letter to your Congressman or Axl Rose himself. Otherwise, don't try to live in the past. My assumptions are only commensurate with your fantasies about a lineup of the band that will never exist again and your constant negativity about things that you don't try to change or can't change. If you are willing to take the steps to engage with the band by contacting them, you will find that you will be more apt to bringing constructive discussion rather than constant negativity and apparent constant dissatisfaction.
     
  4. econalan

    econalan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Close, but I give a slight edge to UYI 1.
     
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  5. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Senior Member

    Location:
    California
    I don't think you know what I am arguing at all if this is your response. Saying that this isn't the same band has nothing to do with living in the past, and I have no fantasies about anything regarding GNR I just know what I hear and see.

    I like Chinese Democracy and as I have said in other topics I have enjoyed GNR when I saw them live. What is this negativity you are speaking about? That I think that CD is overproduced and could have had a little stronger songwriting? That is just an opinion I have when I hear the music, and me not thinking this is the same band just means I see them as different - not better or worse. So again, your constant cries of my "negativity" have left me wondering what you are talking about.
     
  6. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    You have an erroneous belief: that GNR is not GNR. Your crusade against the current state of the band and nitpicking without doing anything constructive (like writing the band) to rectify your crusade is the sad part. I pity you. Bitching about the band on the internet won't help you and it only serves to encourage dissatisfaction. Conversely, actually writing Axl a letter will actually communicate to the band how you feel about their music or might make him stop calling GNR GNR. Or not.
     
  7. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Senior Member

    Location:
    California
    The internet serves as a place to discuss views, why should I censor myself from any of my views because you get your feelings hurt every time someone says they don't consider this band to be truly the same band that existed back in the day?

    This is a discussion forum. Where people discuss things. I don't get your "crusade" bit, I am pulling for the band! I want to hear more material, because I liked Chinese Democracy regardless of the name controversy. If you think that this is a "crusade" then well we are done here because I can't talk logic to someone who can't grasp it.


    Chinese Democracy is overproduced but it is still good. It (in my view) is just dressed as GNR when it is just a Axl solo venture. A worthwhile musical venture and an album worth listening to, but still not the same band regardless
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  8. tkl7

    tkl7 Agent Provocateur

    Location:
    Lewis Center, OH
    Epic trolling on this thread.

    I haven't heard Chinese Democracy, so I can't comment on its merits, or the merits of the line ups that worked on it.

    I only like the Appetite For Destruction line up, because that is the only album by them I like all the way through.
     
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  9. vamborules

    vamborules Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT
    Did Jarmo sign up here? Sure sounds like it.
     
  10. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Senior Member

    Location:
    California
    I know, right? It is pretty ridiculous

    Because I don't think that musical groups where Axl is the only member (well Dizzy too I guess) in common are the same bands I must be on some evil crusade against Axl. It is just silly argumentation
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
    SwollenGoat likes this.
  11. lugnut2099

    lugnut2099 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Missouri
    I loved it, but it took several listens to really set in. I was definitely underwhelmed the first time through, and probably even the second, but I just kept giving it more chances and it finally clicked. For those who've said they've always been on the fence about picking it up, I think you can still get it dirt cheap at Best Buy. I saw the 2LP vinyl selling for about $1.99 at one point a year or so ago.
     
  12. blind_melon1

    blind_melon1 An erotic adventurer of the most deranged kind....

    Location:
    Australia
    That second solo with the "Blah Blah Blah's.." Is as perfect a moment as any of the 'Classic' GnR! :)
     
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  13. Cloudbuster

    Cloudbuster Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I like it more now than I did then.
     
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  14. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    I don't think he even wanted to put out the last one...I think the powers that be finally forced his hand in some way to get it released.
     
  15. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    actually axl was interviewed not that long ago and said that this year he will sit down and go through whats recorded and get it straight. axls quote from a few months ago

    "We recorded a lot of things before Chinese was out. We’ve worked more on some of those things and we’ve written a few new things. But basically, we have what I call kind of the second half of Chinese. That’s already recorded. And then we have a remix album made of the songs from Chinese. That’s been done for a while, too. But after Vegas, we’re going to start looking very seriously at what we’re doing in that regard.”[
     
  16. vinylphile

    vinylphile Forum Resident

    B.S. He's an egomaniac. A talented egomaniac sure - but an egomaniac. He wants to prove that he is GnR but the public mostly hasn't bought it. This "worship" as you like to call it exists because most people greatly prefer the band from its classic late 80s / early 90s era to what they have now become - basically Axl singing with a revolving door of musicians - whomever can put up with him at any given time.
     
  17. Baba Oh Really

    Baba Oh Really Certified "Forum Favorite"

    Location:
    mid west, USA
    So you join a thread that is specifically designed to discuss Chinese Democracy (and thus, those who have actually heard the album), only to come here and state that you've never heard Chinese democracy?

    Yep, you're right. "Epic" trolling, indeed.
     
    S. P. Honeybunch likes this.
  18. vinylphile

    vinylphile Forum Resident

    :laugh::laugh::laugh:

    Pot - kettle - black
     
  19. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    where did you get that?
    izzy- open door to rejoin. has appeared many times with the band the last decade
    duff- has no issues with axl. his band opened for GNR a few years ago and is now filling in on some tour dates while the bands regular bassist is doing a replacements reunion
    dizzy- been with the band since 1990
    tommy stinson- member since 1998
    chris pitman- member since 1998
    richard fortus- member since 2002
    bumblefoot- member since 2006
    frank ferrer- member since 2006
    dj ashba- member since 2009

    i don't see a huge revolving door here as 4 current members have been in the band at least 12 years.

    the following 4 guys were part of the band after the classic lineup left but had other career interests and left when they weren't able to divide time between GNR and other music projects:
    robin fink was in the band 11 years. left to rejoin NIN
    buckethead was in the band 5 years. left to focus on solo career.
    bryan mantia was in the band 7 years. left to do projects with other musicians
    paul tobias didn't want to tour but contributed heavily to chinese democracy
     
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  20. PopularChuck

    PopularChuck Senior Member

    Location:
    Bay Area
    Appetite is without question a masterpiece that stands tall even now, 25-plus years later.

    Illusion I and II was fantastic but needed editing. It had some filler and some self-indulgence.

    Democracy was a bloated mess. It sounded like Axl took every cool idea he ever had and every cool influence he ever heard and ran it through Pro Tools. This is, of course, essentially what he did. It had some interesting moments - Shacklers Revenge, There Was a Time, Street of Dreams - but on the whole, it was largely forgettable. I think the others in the original lineup - Slash and Izzy in particular - were counterbalances to Rose's excesses. Without them, he had no throttle and lost his way.

    Guns n Roses was more than the sum of its parts, and when the original band split up, that magic, that chemistry and that drive was lost. The current band is not GnR. It's the Axl Rose Band. Nothing wrong with that, but it's nothing I'm interested in hearing again.
     
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  21. PopularChuck

    PopularChuck Senior Member

    Location:
    Bay Area
    Uh, actually, Izzy and Axl founded Hollywood Rose, which became Guns n Roses when Tracii Guns joined the band. So Izzy was as much the core as Axl. Duff and Slash joined shortly thereafter; GnR had played but a few gigs before they joined. Then came Steven Adler. This lineup put out Live Like a Suicide, and then Appetite and Lies.

    Appetite is one of the best rock albums ever recorded, period, end of story. Regardless of who founded the band (again, Axl with Izzy and Tracii) everyone in the band contributed to that masterpiece, and the band was far more than the sum of its parts. They recorded Lies, then added Sorum to record Illusion after booting Adler. Then came Spaghetti, which introduced Gilby Clarke after Izzy split, but that album doesn't really count because it was a collection of covers. There was a live album somewhere in there, but that drew on recordings from as far back as 1987 and so was based on several lineups. Then came the long drought that preceded Democracy, which had but one original member of the band and only one guy who worked on any of the other albums.

    So from my perspective, there have been two bands - the guys who brought us Live Like a Suicide through Illusion and the guys who brought us Democracy. I have no problem saying the circa 87 lineup was infinitely better, and gave us infinitely better music. Hence, my "obsession."

    Would you call the Rolling Stones the Rolling Stones if Mick were the only original member remaining? Would it be The Who if Daltrey were standing alone? Etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
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  22. vinyl4287

    vinyl4287 Member

    Location:
    Snowpiercer
    I purchased it for about $5 new on vinyl and never broke.the seal. I did find the used CD for $1 and I could not believe how badly it lacked soul and heart. The music was plastic and the lyrics were downright horrible. He made that record like Al Davis used to.run the Raiders.
     
  23. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    live like a suicide isn't even live. it features 2 covers and 2 songs co-written by someone in hollywood rose with axl so everything on the EP predates the AFD lineup they just happened to be the guys who walked into the studio and recorded it. on AFD anything goes and think about both date from the tracii guns lineup
     
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  24. DreadPikathulhu

    DreadPikathulhu Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    No, because almost all of the good songs on UYI I-II were written by Izzy Stradlin.

    Chinese Democracy wasn't worth the wait (has it already been six years!), but it could have been vastly improved had Axel spent less time tweaking it. Maybe the next album with be "Chinese Democracy... Naked"
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  25. davidshirt

    davidshirt =^,,^=

    Location:
    Grand Terrace, CA
    It would have been a juggernaut, huge, fresh and innovative and relevant if it had been released in 1996.
     
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