I totally agree with ya. I was speaking mainly with the lineups in mind, not so much what each lineup did for its respective band. Good points though.
Alright - it's a fact that Axl has called Chinese Democracy a Guns n Roses album. It's a fact that he is legally allowed to do so. It's also a fact that many including myself don't really consider it one because of all that transpired between Illusion and it. It's a fact that to many people it really seems like an Axl solo album since him and his ego are the only connection to the more established version of the band. It's also a fact that a few people here are unable to grasp the last few facts.
"consider" "seems like" "grasp" These are not words that are usually associated with facts. Just sayin'. Can you maybe point to something more concrete. Here's a Chinese Democracy Question that I'm more interested in discussing. If a drummer drums a part, and then years later another drummer comes in afterward and chops up and edits the earlier drummer's drum part, on the computer, to create the finished track, who gets the credit? It wasn't a technician or engineer who edited it, it was an actual drummer, who joins the band and also knows how to technically chop, edit, and do things in Pro Tools. So, Chinese Democracy fans and detractors: in that scenario, who plays "drums" on the track? Drummer A or Drummer B? Or both?
The OP didn't ask for facts. He asked forumites how we feel about the album. The obvious "fact" on that front is that it is polarizing at best. But then I don't think we needed this thread to illustrate that.
One of things I like about the album is the lyrics. Axl's pain shows through, his anger....it's pretty intense, emotional stuff. That he has managed to add great music to it, or add it to great music, is pretty impressive. I love the album for it's merits, and the fact that it's really like an Axl solo album doesn't matter to me when I'm enjoying it.
Just give it up already. It's a full-fledged Guns N Roses album. Period. End of discussion. You will never win arguing against this fact. Ever. Let's just move on.
Exactly whatever it is called it doesn't matter, the music is interesting regardless I may not consider it the same band as whatever existed prior, but it is all good stuff nonetheless
Hey, I have an even better idea, buddy. How 'bout you just give up your straw man arguments already? Somehow I seriously doubt that'll happen...
I will never give up the truth or the facts, sorry. Chinese Democracy is the sixth studio album by Guns N Roses. Anything beyond that is just "fantasy thinking".
But who are you arguing with? I have never said it isn't. I merely have said that musically I don't view it as such. And clearly I am not alone. I am stating my opinion and you are replying with a straw man argument. Axl could release an album with 4 Monkeys playing nose flute under the name Guns n Roses. Of course it would factually be a Guns n Roses album. But I'd bet a lot of people would think it a farce. It ain't "fantasy thinking", it's musical opinion. You know, that thing that this forum is supposed to be about.
I agree. This gets lost on a lot of people. Nobody is disputing the name from a legal POV that Axl is calling his band of guys GNR. However for me and quite a lot of other people it is the music that is the key holder, and its makeup that by all accounts really tells me all I need to know. Personally, I do not view the current as the same band that existed prior, I do not view it as the real "GNR" but a different band called the same. Some people do view it as the same band, good for them. This is really a dumb point of contention by all accounts IMO. A lack of really accepting the fact that some people view it as a different band regardless of what it is called, and that those opinions have always existed and always will exist. Nobody is gonna convince the opposing view of whatever it is they want the other person to think because music is subjective and there is more than just sheer legalities to discuss. Some people don't see this current band as the same band - to those who disagree with that viewpoint my advice would be to get over it, move on, and focus on the actual music - which is what matters the most IMO Band name and preconceptions aside, I am giving Chinese Democracy a spin as I am typing this. I forgot how killer of a tune Better is
The new Guns n Roses reminds me of when Alice Cooper went solo from the Alice Cooper group in 1975. It sure wasn't the old band playing but it was very successful! It also reminds me of Veruca Salt's Resolver. Would we be having this argument if the album sold millions and millions and the tour was sold out everywhere? From my point of view, it is a G n R album but I'm disappointed in the actual songs. They need more edge to them. I understand that there were a lot of other unreleased songs but I don't know if they are any "edgier" than what was released.
When I was a kid, I loved Alice Cooper. What's interesting is that I didn't draw any distinction between "Goes to Hell", "Welcome to my nightmare", "Killer", "Love it to death" or "The Alice Cooper show". In fact, The Alice cooper show was possibly my favorite out of them all. It wasn't until the 1990's that I started drawing distinctions while listening to "Goes to hell" and "Welcome to my nightmare", based upon deeper knowledge of who played what, etc.. Chinese Democracy: I could see this being absolutely huge had it been released in 1993. In fact, I'm almost sure of it. As it is, it's largely very "90's" sounding. Perhaps time has worked against this album? Again, I'm almost sure of it.
Cooler heads prevailed when we were discussing whether "Real Love" and "Free As A Bird" were The Beatles or not. Just sayin'
He should have called it 'By GNR 2.0'.. Then we wouldn't have had this discussion... Here's my 5 cents... I like the album a lot... I like it as much as Appetite.. for the last 14 years (or so) I've seen all the incarnations of the band as 'product updates' I think we're now on version 3.1 .. *LOL* Anyway... This album could NOT have been made by the 'Appetite' lineup.. And since '99 ((?) End Of Days soundtrack))you knew what to expect.... And yes.. it stands next to 'live 87/93'.. All alphabetical and chronological... So it's a GNR album....
That edge, to me, has been gone since Appetite and Lies. The UYI tried to have that edge, but it failed as well, imo.
To this day I think I actually prefer Illusion to Appetite. Sacrilege I know but to me it sounded more classic rock and less hair metal. Sure it was uneven and had some overblown schlock like Civil War and November Rain. But songs like Bad Apples, Dust n Bones, Shotgun Blues, Pretty Tied Up...that kinda raw rocking stuff really reminded me of the Stones circa Exile on Main St. On the other hand, Appetite (especially the smash hits Paradise City and Sweet Child o Mine) always sounded a bit too much like hair metal for me to really LOVE it.
I'm gonna have to raise the ******** flag once again. Band member Dizzy Reed played on Use Your Illusion I, Use Your Illusion II, and Chinese Democracy. Don't let any more facts get in the way of your time machine fantasy in which Slash fires Axl, though.
