Have arm, want turntable

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by tiller, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. tiller

    tiller Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal
    Hi all,

    Been on a bit of an upgrade journey over the past year. Currently eyeing up my turntable, which is a Rega P3-24 with Groovetracer subplatter and Delrin platter, and a Dynavector XX-2 mated to an Audiomods Series 5 arm.

    I am considering buying a new turntable to use with the XX-2/Audiomods combo. Since it's very difficult to A/B these sorts of things I am appealing to the forum for opinions. Decks I'm considering are:

    - Oracle Paris
    - SOTA Sapphire
    - Acoustic Signature WOW XXL
    - Michell Gyro SE

    So, what sort of improvements do you think I could get from moving the XX-2/Audiomods combo from my P3-24 to one of the above?

    Thanks!

    P.S. also open to other armless suggestions
     
  2. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    I'd avoid the SOTA. Had one. Hated it.

    There's a minty mint Garrard 401 with a Vinylista plinth in the marketplace for $2k. That's what I would do.

    I've got a very similar setup to yours and it's quite nice. The other suggestion would be to add a Rega TTPSU.

    Edit: if you go with the Garrard, Jeff can cast a tonearm base for you. I've got one just in case.
     
  3. tiller

    tiller Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal
    Hi,

    Thanks for the input. What did you not like about the SOTA?

    The P3-24 has a TTPSU by the way. I am strictly looking for opinions about what sort of appreciable improvements could be gained by moving my tonearm/cart to a new table. I suspect bearing quality, motor, motor isolation, and isolation in general are the main things that will contribute to a potential improvement in sonics.
     
  4. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    A couple of things I didn't like- the motor would tick occasionally which required an easy adjustment. Overall though I found it overpriced and it didn't sound all that great. I ended up not using it much at all in the 15 years I had it. A dust collector.

    I sold it and bought a Pioneer PLX-1000 which cost far less and sounded better. Then a couple of months ago I bought a new P3 which I love. I've upgraded the daylights out of it with good results. Both the Pioneer and Rega saw/see heavy use, unlike the SOTA.

    If you want a big jump up, that Garrard is the ticket. High end idler drive tables really are special
     
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  5. royzak2000

    royzak2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London,England
    The Michell is well known reliable sounds amazingly good looks fantastic, has great backup, has had this for so many years, I'm sure the others are good but why bother..
     
  6. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    The Gyro SE is a great deck, I'd recommend adding the HR power supply, it takes it to a higher level, but even without the HR it's in a different league to the Rega.
     
  7. tiller

    tiller Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal
    Thanks for your input, guys. Can you elaborate as to what kind of appreciable differences one could expect from moving the tonearm from the Rega to, potentially, the Michell? Again, keeping in mind that the tonearm, cartridge, and the rest of the chain remains the same.
     
  8. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    I have an original oracle Paris and if the new one is basically the same it is highly overpriced imo (over $3k for the table alone I Think)
    good table, nice looking, but not worth that in today's market compared to other offerings.
     
    AmericanHIFI likes this.
  9. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    From those options, I'd choose either the Oracle or the Michell. I think that you'd be farther ahead however to sell your whole table and arm and buy a Rega RP8. Mount the XX2 to that, and you'll have better everything for less than what one of these other tables might run. I can't say that it'd be better than the Oracle or the Michell or vice-versa, but that they will all be different, and certainly better than the RP3 as a platform.
    -Bill
     
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  10. royzak2000

    royzak2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London,England
    You would need to tell them, or your distributer, the arm you are using as michell design arm bases on weight and other parameters the Rega is part of this, their own arm the Tecknoarm is a Rega drivative.
    Sorry but I have no idea how much better it would sound, that's what Hi-Fi is all about dipping into the black hole, but it does look amazing.
    I did it after twenty years with a Linn, got an Orbe, loved it.
     
  11. tiller

    tiller Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal
    Thanks again for the input, it is appreciated.

    Definitely not getting rid of the Audiomods arm. It is a brilliant tonearm that holds its own.

    I'll have to start looking around for Michell dealers to get an idea of price I suppose. Hopefully they aren't too expensive up here.

    Thanks again.
     
    HiFi Guy and royzak2000 like this.
  12. Jimi Floyd

    Jimi Floyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    Michell
     
    RONENRAY likes this.
  13. Folsom

    Folsom New Member

    Location:
    Eastern WA
    PTP tables are another option
     
  14. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    It's been years since I've had a Rega alongside my Gyro SE, the last one was a Rega 25, a deck I really liked, but from memory with all other things being equal the Michell gives you more of everything, the recordings sound better, you hear more information and although I'm not one of the Rega speed knockers I'd say the Michell has better speed accuracy even without the HR, listen to the Rega first and you'll enjoy it and think it's very good, then play the same record on the Gyro and you'll hear a genuine improvement.

    I assume your Audiomods is a Rega mount, if it's not majorly different in weight from a Rega or Michell arm then the standard Michell Rega armboard should be fine.
     
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  15. tiller

    tiller Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal
    Thanks again for the suggestions all.

    I should reiterate that I am looking for opinions on what facets of playback will possibly be improved, and to what degree, by changing out the turntable and keeping the arm. I was hoping to make this more than a "which turntable should I buy" thread, of which there's a million. Although I do appreciate folks' enthusiasm for living vicariously through my wallet! :D

    @Dubmart, thank you, this is the kind of information I am looking for. I do believe the Audiomods is slightly lighter than your typical RB303 which is likely fine, but the pivot to spindle and effective length differs from the Rega fare. I am prepared to have an armboard made for whichever table I choose.
     
  16. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    I've had a RB 250, 300, 600 and Michell TechnoArm, with different weights and carts mounted on my Gyro SE so I don't think slight weight differences are an issue, the different effective length could well be more of a problem, Michell have fantastic customer service and may be worth calling as they make everything in house I'm sure drilling the mounting hole in a slightly different position wouldn't be a problem, may also be worth contacting Audiomods who may have experience of selling to Michell owners. My advice is to find a dealer with a Gyro on demo with either a Rega or Michell arm mounted, have a proper demo, use your own cart if at all possible and listen for yourself, I think that the Audiomods being Rega derived you will get a valid ideal with either Rega or Michell arms. If the dealer has a HR on demo as well add that to the mix once you have got an idea of how the Gyro sounds without it, I think you'll be impressed. This is the sort of situation where a good dealer is essential you really need to hear the Michell and/or the other decks before parting with your money and a dealer set up is also very useful, especially for the Gyro SE.
     
  17. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    And I'll stand with @tiller on the arm. I'd put it up against anything Rega makes, and it'll come out on top. It's actually competitive with an SME or a Triplanar.

    [Review] Audiomods Series Five Tonearm
     
    Nihil Sleighride, IanL and chili555 like this.
  18. tiller

    tiller Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal
    I'm putting the kibosh on the tonearm battle that will inevitably ensue following this. Let's keep the focus on the differences between tables without arms, please!

    (I do appreciate your support though ;))
     
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  19. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    I don't think anyone will have a definitive answer to what differences you'll hear-especially given your turntable is effectively a "one off" with the Audiomods and Groovetracer upgrades.

    As I said earlier, our tables are quite similar- I too did the Audiomods and Groovetracer mods, and a couple of other things. I personally am really happy and really couldn't imagine changing.

    That said, what do you feel like you are missing? Remember, "change" doesn't mean "improvement."

    I think though if I ever wanted to change, the Gyrodec would be at the top of a short list. I'd grab a few albums and visit a Michell dealer.
     
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  20. tiller

    tiller Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal
    Yeah, all good points. I'm definitely getting to the point where the line between "change" and "improve" is getting blurred. And no doubt my setup is sounding pretty good.

    Things I'd like to improve on the Rega are pitch stability, noise floor, and perhaps making the overall tonality slightly less forward (although this last point could be argued to be a contribution of many factors). Overall, I think I'd just like something a little different. I've had the P3-24 for nearly a decade now and I'm very curious to see what sort of improvement I can bring to my rig with a turntable update.

    I've contacted the only local Michell dealer and he has the Orbe setup for in-store demo. Not sure if that's a fair comparison or what. Perhaps he'd let me mount my tonearm on it. The prices on Michell stuff here in Canada do not seem attractive at all unfortunately.

    Thanks again for your input!
     
    HiFi Guy likes this.
  21. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    The good news is that both pitch stability and noise floor are things the Gyro should do better, the bad news is the Orbe is a class above the Gyro, I have both and it's not close, but don't let that put you off having a demo of the Orbe, if you can afford it getting the Orbe SE should be the last deck upgrade you ever want or need and I'm sure Michell can provide a dedicated Audiomods armboard for it.
     
  22. tiller

    tiller Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal
    Thanks Dubmart. I was thinking about the armboard thing and since the Audiomods is a drop-in replacement for the Regas, the Rega armboard should work fine. The mounting should be exactly the same.

    I heard back from the dealer re: Michell prices and they are quite high up here in Canada. Definitely going to think on this.
     
    Dubmart likes this.
  23. Guildx500

    Guildx500 Active Member

    Location:
    California
    Do you have an Oracle dealer nearby? It's made in Canada and may offer more bang for your Canadian dollars. I haven't heard a Paris but the Delphi is certainly a great TT in my experience.
    You're probably not going to get a lot of responses here about what specifically you're going to hear by moving your arm and cart to a new turntable.
     
  24. tiller

    tiller Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal
    Oracle is definitely much more readily available around these parts -- they are stationed just a couple hours away actually. The Paris is not hugely cheaper than the Gyro SE, however. That's one thing I have against the Oracle is that it seems very expensive for what it is (the Paris anyway) which another poster in this thread mentioned as well.

    I'm really liking the looks of the Michell offerings. It was probably a mistake to start looking at the Orbe :eek:
     
    HiFi Guy likes this.
  25. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    It's never a mistake to look at or listen to the Orbe, except for your finances.:D The Gyro Se is an excellent deck in it's own right though, good luck with your demos.:righton:
     
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