Have Fakes Started to Turn Up of The Beatles U.S. Albums Box Set, or Am I Just Paranoid?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by clearvinylsounds, Jan 22, 2015.

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  1. clearvinylsounds

    clearvinylsounds Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I think I may have purchased a counterfeit copy of The Beatles U.S. Albums box set, but I am not sure. I have found absolutely no information about fake copies of The U.S. Albums box anywhere, so this forum seemed like a good place to start. I purchased this boxed set on ebay very recently. It was advertised as "Like New but without the shrink wrap," which seemed reasonable to me. The price was right and the seller's feedback was generally good.

    The seller is a US seller and the box set was shipped from within the US. The set arrived quickly and well packaged for transit. The only thing I initially noticed upon inspection was that, inside the box, there were little spots that are probably glue remnants (the spots almost look like small grease marks; they do not smear, though, nor are they sticky). These little spots are not a big deal to me, but seeing them motivated me to search for issues that the box set might have had regarding the small marks. My presumption, since this seller had more than one copy of this set (each of which were Like New without shrink wrap), was that this seller must have access to returns due to minor defects that are superficial, not very noticeable, and do not affect the playback.

    In the course of my search about the spots, I came across several issues about fake Beatles Mono CD box sets, which I guess kinda got me thinking... Some of the issues that seem to be associated with fake Mono boxes are also present on my copy of the U.S. Albums box (the little spots being one of them). On closer inspection, I noticed that many of the sleeves were not cut exactly right, and the couple of gatefold
    cover items (such as "The Beatles Story") did not fold over cleanly, with sharp angles where the front and back covers meet the spine, but instead, seemed kind of like they were folded shut by hand and wanted to pop back open rather than the gatefold staying shut. Another example is that the sticker photo for the "censored" "Yesterday and Today" cover is grainy, and the paper the sticker is mounted on is cut unevenly.

    I watched a few "unboxing" videos for this set and noticed that the CDs are supposed to come in clear, resealable, Japanese-style outer sleeves, which the copy I received does not have (but, if it weren't for the other apparent anomalies, the missing sleeves wouldn't matter to me, because the seller could have removed them for his own use and I could replace them very easily, but given the other issues, I began to think I was in possession of a pretty well done counterfeit).

    One of the main things that I noticed in watching the unboxing videos was that the mini LP sleeve covers for each (or most) of the CD albums seemed to be glossy, casting a glare when the light hit them at just the right angle, whereas the CD album sleeves for all of the discs in the box set I received are matte finish (they look good, but none of them are glossy). This glossiness of the CD album covers seems to me to be something that those of you who definitely have the official version of this set might be able to verify if you don't mind. The other issues with my set could, arguably, be defects associated with a less-than-perfect manufacturing run, resulting in seconds, remainders, or substandard versions that Capitol/Universal decided not to sell (which, again, does not matter to me as much as not wanting to have a counterfeit

    There are a few other details that have now raised my suspicion about this box, but those are the main ones. If any of you have any information or other thoughts about this, I would be interested in reading them.

    Regards,

    Walter
     
  2. Mark Wilson

    Mark Wilson Forum Resident

    I bought all the CD's individually at a reputable local store (Books-A-Million) rather than the box set, but I'll add what I know. Without seeing a picture to know how your copies look, I can say that my gatefolds are pretty much the same in general. I pulled out Help! last night, and the cardboard is pretty thick which does keep it from folding over easily on its own. You kinda have to push it closed, and the 2 corners on the right don't match up exactly with the ones on the left when closed.

    Regarding the outer plastic sleeves though, I believe the box copies should have them just like the individual ones, because I purchased a copy of The Beatles Story from someone here (since that one wasn't sold separately) and it had the same outer sleeve. I'd assume that's the way it came to the original buyer.

    As for the cardboard outer mini-lp cover, I would describe mine as glossy and smooth. Not super-reflective, but not matte finish either. You should also have replica inner mini-sleeves with pics of other Capitol albums of the era, and those are more of a matte finish. And the CD's themselves should come in a little plastic sleeve that fits inside, and is round on one end but has a straight edge on the side that's open.

    Can't help you right now with the Yesterday... And Today covers as I haven't opened that one yet and am at work. However the cardboard cover itself has the same finish as all the others. Not sure about the peal-off sticker, but since it was designed to peel on and off the paper it uses might account for what you describe. I'd have to take a look tonight.

    Hope that helps some.

    Mark
     
  3. JRM

    JRM Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eugene, Oregon
    I bought a counterfeit stereo box last year. eBay instantly refunded my purchase and told me to keep it. This video was helpful, maybe it would help identify any issues on the U.S. albums box...?

     
  4. clearvinylsounds

    clearvinylsounds Forum Resident Thread Starter


    Thanks for your reply. Yes, the discs in the boxed version of "The US Albums" should each have resealable sleeves, but if that were the only red flag, I would just assume that the seller had removed them. But other "warning signs" of fakeness is that the label side of each disc in my set is very dark. Too dark. In looking at an unboxing video of The US Albums on YouTube, several "presenters" showed some of the discs and, for example, the label side of the disc for "A Hard Day's Night", one of the three or four discs that were shown, had some color differences between the copy on the video and the copy I have (for example, there are circles that run across the top of the label side of this disc (as part of the United Artists' logo), four of the circles are filled in with color, but, where the colors on the "Hard Day's Night" label on YouTube video are greenish-yellow, the colors on my disc are brown; on my disc, it looks like there are only 9 circles, but on the video, I can see that the circles that are not filled in with color are actually interlocking circles, making for many more than 9 circles; the circles on the label of my copy of "Hard Day's Night" are are rough and blurry looking).

    I also checked on discogs, which details the matrix/runout numbers for each disc. As I understand it, these would be the numbers visible around the center hole on the playing side of the disc. For the first disc ("Meet the Beatles"), discogs lists the matrix numbers as: 3761312 CD1 53119 (using this number to search, I am taken to several different sites (besides discogs) which refer to this matrix number in the context of "Meet the Beatles", thus lending some credibility to the presumption that these matrix numbers are "official"). On the copy of "Meet the Beatles" in the US Albums box I have, the only matrix-type numbers I see are DIDX-1041942, which do not seem to relate to anything having to do with "Meet the Beatles" (in using these numbers in an online search). Maybe of importance is fact that each disc in the set I have has an "identifier" stamped into the middle, clear plastic area of the disc. This identifier is clear (not stamped with ink). This identifier seems to be "FGD06" on some discs, and "FGD08" on other discs. This number is preceded on each disc by what looks like a tiny logo with the letters "yp" or "ypi" (also clear, but readable when tilted just right to the light). I thought a search using these numbers would lead me to the manufacturer of the compact disc, but I could find no information about the meaning of these letters and numbers. The more I look online and examine the discs, the more convinced I am that this set is a counterfeit; but I am still *very* interested in any further comments.

    The YouTube video about fake Beatles Stereo boxes, which JRM linked in his post, was very informative (thank you). There are also a couple of videos on YouTube about fake Beatles Mono CD Albums box sets that are similarly helpful. Of further note regarding the (probably counterfeit) set I have: the clear rice paper sleeves that fit into the vintage Capitol Records inner dust sleeves are very wrinkled and thin, like those seen in the video JRM linked (not smooth and crisp like the inner dust sleeves in my Mono CD box and in the US Albums boxes I watched being unboxed); most, if not all, of the album jackets in my set are poorly cut so that the back part of the cover extends beyond the front (even on the non-gatefold covers); and there is no foam padding that secures the discs snugly in the box (as the official boxes all seem to have). Instead, the inside of the box in my set is white (as it should be), but it is speckled with small, greasy-looking marks, which as I understood from the video linked by JRM, is because of the cheap oily ink used in counterfeits. Interestingly, this was the first clue that set me in motion to see whether the small greasy marks were a common problem in The US Albums Box (thinking maybe it was like the problem with glue on the discs in Neil Young's Archive CD box). I didn't set out thinking I would determine I had accidentally snagged a bootleg!
     
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  5. Channel Z

    Channel Z Forum Resident

    Location:
    Illinois
    I was wondering about this also recently. I noticed these on eBay at bargain prices $65.00-79.00. Amazon and others retailers are in the $150.00-170.00 range still for these. When I see prices with ranges this wide to me it's a red flag. I was thinking about buying this at bargain price but now I'm not sure. This is similar to the CD Mono Box if I remember correctly.
     
  6. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    FGD06 and FGD08 are "ifpi" SID mould codes:

    http://ifpi.org/content/library/sid-code-implementation-guide.pdf

    That doesn't mean they are genuine codes, or that the box is genuine Universal product.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2015
  7. factory44

    factory44 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA USA
    I bought the same set on eBay last week ("like new but without the shrink wrap"). I too have the spots inside the box. My "Beatles Story" sleeve is a mangled mess. The sides of the gatefold don't join up together properly. The "Hard Days Night" sleeve isn't glued/joined together properly, either. I also did not receive the clear sleeves for each CD. And, like in the fake Stereo Box Set videos on YouTube, each disc is found inside an ill-fitting plastic sleeve.

    I think we've bought counterfeits...



     
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  8. Mychael

    Mychael Forum Resident

    In the original Universal/Apple set, all the covers have matt finish, only the 'Butcher' cover is glossy. (The 'Yesterday & Today' sticker cover is also matt.)

    And besides, there are no 'returns' or 'bad print runs' of the Universal set. When sets like these are assembled, faulty copies are sorted out after each seperate production run at the individual manufacturing outlets (for inner sleeves, outer cardboard sleeves, the booklet, the CD pressing, or the box). So so-one could possibly have access to a complete 'not-perfect' box.
     
  9. clearvinylsounds

    clearvinylsounds Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Sounds very much the same. Inner vintage Capitol dust sleeves are also mostly not glued (not a big deal, other than an indication, taken with everything else, of being a fake). If we both bought from the same seller, I am guessing you are *not* the person who left positive feedback for him for this box earlier this week (some buyer did, and I was initially going to do so, too, until I started looking more closely at the contents). I will probably email the seller and inform him of my conclusion about his product.
     
  10. clearvinylsounds

    clearvinylsounds Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Even the butcher cover is matte finish in the set I ended up with. The photograph is also very grainy, and especially so on the sticker (which is also on very unevenly cut paper).

    Interesting information about Universal's screening process/quality control.
     
  11. gregorya

    gregorya I approve of this message

    It sounds as if some of you have received the "Beatles Chinese Albums Box Set"... ;)

    I had a fake Mono Box some years ago, cheaply made, typos, etc.
     
  12. clearvinylsounds

    clearvinylsounds Forum Resident Thread Starter

    According to discogs (which isn't the final word but *is* a useful starting place), The Beatles U.S. Albums Mould SID Code reads IFPI 3721. It is possible that my (mis) reading of " a tiny logo with the letters 'yp' or 'ypi'" were actually the letters "ifpi" (I don't have the Beatles box here at my office with me today). My belief that my copy is a bootleg box set is pretty close to 100% now.

    I really appreciate all of the information that has been provided by you guys.

    - Walter
     
  13. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    Yep, some discs have an ifpi logo preceding either of the SID codes rather than using the plain upper-case characters - it does kind of look like 'ypi'.

    Unfortunately, it does seem like you have a counterfeit box, given the matrix and hub details (and the packaging quality issues).
     
  14. factory44

    factory44 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA USA
    It definitely wasn't me who left positive feedback for the seller. Please let me know if you receive a reply from the seller. I'm going to send him a message, too. It seems like WAY too much of a coincidence that both you and I received boxes from the same seller that look suspicious.


    Sounds very much the same. Inner vintage Capitol dust sleeves are also mostly not glued (not a big deal, other than an indication, taken with everything else, of being a fake). If we both bought from the same seller, I am guessing you are *not* the person who left positive feedback for him for this box earlier this week (some buyer did, and I was initially going to do so, too, until I started looking more closely at the contents). I will probably email the seller and inform him of my conclusion about his product.[/QUOTE]
     
  15. boins

    boins New Member

    Location:
    Easten'r

    Your right Mychael - it's virtually impossible for there to be so many wrong items in 1 completed box set. I've worked in printing a long time, on the bindery side, and have put together many packages containing book, paper, cd, button etc all into one box. It's a million in one shot for all the defective items to end up in the same box.
     
  16. MHP

    MHP Lover of Rock ‘n Roll

    Location:
    DK
    Bought it when it came out. The official one.
    My 'Beatles Story' didn't fold properly either and smelled badly. All discs were inside these ill-fitting plastic sleeves too. There were also bits of glue inside the box. My life didn't end because of it and I enjoy my set. I think you have the geniue one. All of them had small issues and you can't expect otherwise with so many discs...
    Anyway, pictures would be nice so we could see the issues.
     
  17. boins

    boins New Member

    Location:
    Easten'r


    Me Three!!!
    I bought 2 wks ago from probably the same Seller ('Like New', no shrink wrap). All my problems are exactly the same as you guys. Wrote the Seller this morning and rattled off all the problems i'm seeing with the set and what does he have to say about it. I got an offer for a $15 partial refund, or to return for a full refund. I told him 'no thanks' i'll open a case, call the Postal Authorities, and contact Capitol/UME about possible counterfeiting. Within minutes i got a full refund! I also got a disclaimer that he only deals with reputable wholesalers and that he doubts there's anything wrong with the Box Sets.
    Oh Well.
    After getting burned on the Stereo Box Set on eBay a few years back i guess i've finally learned my lesson. It's better to buy from established businesses, and to pay a little more, but in the end know that you've got something legitimate. Plus, if you save the receipt it makes it much easier to re-sell if you needed too. I bought my my Mono Box Set that way on eBay - i got the reciept with the original sealed outer box that came from Amazon with the eBay Sellers name still on it.
     
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  18. Dinstun

    Dinstun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    That's pretty much an admission of guilt. No one would give a full refund and let you keep a legit box. The same thing happened to me with the mono box a couple of years ago.
     
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  19. factory44

    factory44 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA USA
    Wish I had been smart enough to do what you did! I filed for a return thru eBay, and I'll get my money back when he gets the box back. I wonder if it's too late to cancel the return and open an eBay case instead?!

     
  20. boins

    boins New Member

    Location:
    Easten'r
    Randy: Since you can't put into the mail until tomorrow anyway why not write the Seller and tell him you just found out that it's illegal to use the U.S. mail for counterfeit/pirated goods. And that is the truth anyway. Maybe he'll just give in and say okay. Or maybe call eBay customer Service and tell them what's going on - they might step in and put a stop to the whole 'open case'. Maybe.
     
  21. factory44

    factory44 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA USA
    Here's the latest from the eBay seller.

    "Just an FYI, he did return the item. I would never give a return on a $70 with getting the item back.
    He claimed it was a counterfeit, I asked him why and he told me it had Chinese paper in the box and the CD's were in the wrong holders. Since that time I have opened everyone, no Chinese paper and the CD's are in the correct sleeves. I don't know him and don't know how knowledgeable he was. So, I have kept selling them since I have seen no more problems. Now, after talking to a second person, you who seems to be more knowledgeable, I am going to hold off on selling anymore until I get a set from Amazon in my hands to see how mine compare.
    I am sorry, but I cannot refund until I get my set back. Sorry."


     
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  22. boins

    boins New Member

    Location:
    Easten'r
    Sounds like a different Seller than mine. I never mentioned Chinese paper and even tho 2 cd's were mixed up in my box i never mentioned that either. But i did get my refund without returning it. Some sellers are very paranoid about their Ratings and will do anything to avoid having a case opened against them.
    So, you can either return & get your money back and move on from there, or do battle with the guy and hope he eventually gives in and lets you keep the box. If you return, make sure to send it Registered or Signature or some such service to prove he received it , not just that you sent it. If you do battle, do all messaging thru eBay so they can review it later if you open a case. Open your case within 30 days of you receiving the item (or 45 days if you open a case thru Paypal). And don't use foul language - eBay frowns on it and your argument gets weaker whenever you do.
    I'm just talking from 17 years experience Buying & Selling on eBay - i'm not a know-it-all!
     
  23. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    FITTING as the original US box is a fake as well...
     
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  24. Smartin62

    Smartin62 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cleburne, Tx USA
    I've read here on the forum where other UMe products can be made in multiple countries sometimes with widely varying degrees of quality control. They may be real ... scarey, huh!
     
  25. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    yes! but, I think this may be wrong...
     
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