Have You Actually A/B Tested Power Cords?

My general rule of thumb (in many things) is: If you can't tell the difference, you shouldn't pay extra for it. But don't go around indiscriminately peeing in someone else's punch bowl if they happen to feel differently.

 

How would this blow my amp?

 

You can, although I have not done this myself. Although now I've thought of it I might well wire it up.

Basically you need a distribution board into which you can plug the line end of the cables. In that there are power relays. And then you need another board into which you plug the IEC end, again with relays - and then an output IEC that goes to the audio component.

Suppose cable A is currently connected.

Then you need a timer circuit (say half a second, dead easy to do) that, when you select cable B, connects cable B *in parallel* with cable A, and then disconnects cable A after half a second, leaving only B connected - but without at any point interrupting the power.

Etc.

The X position needs a bit of thought, although there is a nightmare box with lots of switches on Rod Elliotts's site Project ABX

 

Steve, do you ever upgrade the power cords on equipment you use when mastering?

 

I am not an Electronic or Audio engineer...but I do speak from experience and had a blown amp. I would follow Warren's advice in this, he has a ton of experience and knowledge about these sorts of things. Sure, some amps may be more rugged and be able to handle this sort of treatment.

Anyway, have at it, go nuts plugging and unplugging your amp cable within a couple of seconds.
Please report back.

 

What you need to do is record something. Change power cords and record it again. Subract one from the other. What's left will be the power cord "signature".

 

I'm pretty simple in I also feel your PSU in the amp needs to get good current flow from the wall as cleanly and without disruption as possible. Getting the current flow of amps to your speakers from the PSU is critical to your speakers sounding their best, so getting the flow from the wall is important, regardless if your amp current flow is rated at 10-20 amps or much larger at 40-50 amps. My Parasound Halo is rated at 45 amps peak per channel, so I just like knowing I have a power cord that can handle such current. And yes I know not that much would flow....but we all know that big PSU can enhance your listening so why not match it with a better power cord.

Yes it is only 3-6 feet of cable but for my system it is the most important 3-6 feet of cable that will power my amp as best it can and eventually to my speakers. A lamp cord will power your amp, but touch it after awhile and it will be warm to hot.........

 

This thread has reinforced to me, that I should not take a strong stand about power cords, and above all, never make a universal comment that one brand of power cord is "better" than another. So, although I have never said to anyone that I "can't stand" a particular power cord, I apologize if I left that impression with Steve about the one I saw at his house. What I should have made clear was that this specific model of power cord did sound less desirable than others into my particular amplifier, when I tried it and promptly removed it. And it is so expensive, that it really disappointed me. But I do like their interconnect cables VERY much, and personally own a pair of them (too expensive to own many of them).

 

I would say yes to that if everybody else is on the same level playing field!

Me personally, this is the first time in over 40 years of enjoying hi-fi that I have bought an 'audiophile' grade mains block and mains cable and I was delighted with the result! Got me playing more LPs trying to catch them out but I couldn't. I'm actually listening to music more than ever, rather than the hi-fi and isn't that the objective!

JG

 

We have very different views of these matters, obviously. I don’t accept the assumption that “mimicking user experiences” means approving of any of the exotic power cords or interconnects or speaker cables that Gehl happens to be using on any given day. I can think of a lot of reasons there being used that have nothing to do with approving of sucvh cables. To me, mimicking user experiences is more likely to mean duplicating various combinations of setups. Still doesn’t amount to approving of so-called high end AC power cords by Gehl or anybody else at AR. My tendency is to view all marketing claims by the ‘high-end’ cable makers in the same context in which such claims are made - in the context of the nonsense language that is used, the impoosible physics that is sometimes touted, and the grossly ill-defined emotional language used to persuade prospective cable buyers about what they’ll allegedly hear.

That Gehl chose to use freely available interconnects and AC power cords and speaker cables likely provided freely to AR by various cable makers is merely a vehicle for those self-same cable makers to then boast that AR uses their cables in its test suites. In no way is it an endorsement by AR, nor have I ever read or heard about any such endorsement by AR. That a Gehl testimonial is published on the Sain Line web site is less an endorsement that it is suspicious to me.

 

Has there been any blind listening testing on these so called Cadillac cables?

I know I would want to hear a difference if I spend more on the cable than the equipment.

 

A good friend and electronics technician has twice tried to put together an AC power cord ABX box for me. Problem is, there are just too many components out there that can’t tolerate fast switching of any kind, or that can’t be noiselessly switched from one power cord to another. The “X” random selection problem is a whole other issue.

A timer circuit can’t be made noise-free, and it will always be in the way. Irrespective of what I personally understand to be the absolute nonsense surrounding allegedly audiophile AC power cords, I won’t put anything non-neutral (such as a timer circuit) in between a power cord and a component because the test would then no longer be fair and it would no longer meet the AC power cord supporters’ requirement that nothing interfere with any cord’s prospective ability to do whatever its manufacture claims it will do. It would be inadvertently similar to rigging a test for an outcome that I want. Anyway, I know that wasn’t your intention when you posted your ideas about a possible ABX AC power cord test box design, so I appreciate the suggetions.

Truly objective testing doesn’t presume any particular outcome. I’d like to figure out something that would pass the sniff test, but I’ve never been able to think of a way to do it for AC power cords.

 

You wouldn't want to do that anyway. I've got some higher end power cords and I do think they make a noticeable difference (especially on a power amp) but I also think that unless you've got better amplification and speakers there won't be a lot to be got from upgrading power cords. In other words, gear has to be pretty resolving in order to hear the (relatively) subtler benefits of power cord upgrades. My take.

Having said that, I never put together something like a hundred dollar power cord on a thousand dollar amp. I put money into better ICs and speaker cable before I put it into power cords.

 

If I tree falls in the woods, can we hear a difference in the sound???

 

I take your point about noiseless switching, since a different clunk sound for one selection would be a cue that a particular cable was selected. But the timer circuit is just used to fire the relays - it is not in the cable path.

But the presence of relays in the mains path is sure to be objected to as the reason that two cables statistically sound identical. But there is usually at least one relay (and possibly two) in a power amplifier itself. One to take it out of standby and into operating mode (all recent power amps have this for power saving) and another to control soft start for the power transformer by shorting out the soft start resistor.

If the equipment is a preamp, with no soft start, the mains power goes through a mechanical switch - which is a set of contacts in precisely the same way that a relay contains a set of contacts. An if you can't hear a degradation in audio from the on/off switch, you won't be able to hear the insertion of a set of relay contacts.

 

Yes, my friend made his own out of Nordost SPM and Kimber plugs, yes it made a big difference on his Jeff Rowland Amps and Wadia CD player.

My system (mainly Linn) is quite happy with the stock power chords. I use Music Works cables and six way block. They were.........er.....cheap, I worked in the industy at the time. On the Linn stuff it made no difference on my Prima Luna it made no big difference. So the jury is out for me and I'd rather spend the money on music or guitars!

 

For the vast majority of amplifiers, it probably wouldn't hurt anything to leave on when changing power cords; I wouldn't chance it, though. You might get an arc from power cord to IEC receptacle as you remove and/or replace the cable, with the power on, which I wouldn't like to see the black spot-weld mark leftover. But my primary reason to suggest power-off was to duplicate EXACTLY the level of "warm-up" of the amp when trying each cable. By turning it off, waiting for the capacitors to bleed down, removing and adding back the cable, you will be creating a controlled experiment, that is absolutely repeatable.

 

My tree fell down in the back yard, and my audio system doesn't sound the same since.

No, it didn't!

 

Where did I say or suggest he "approves" of the cables? I am making a simple statement that it is a logical conclusion that he thinks there is a DIFFERENCE in sound, using the various different power cords.

Let me put it yet another way, if he, or you, believed there was absolutely zero effect on the sound by something, would he/you bother to include that in your demo combinations? For example shining different coloured lights on the equipment. No, he would choose one colour light which he felt accentuated the LOOK of the setup and leave it at that, anyone at the demo might think "ooh, that light looks nice" or "ooh, that light looks horrible" or anywhere in-between. Nobody at the demo would think "yeah, sure it sounds great with that blue light, but I have a red light, I need to know what it will sound like with that..".

So, I will say it again, the only logical conclusion for him including power cables as a variable in his demo configurations, in order to mimic user experience, is because HE believes they make a difference to the performance of the configurations. Whether you or I do is irrelevant.

 

There can of course be other conclusions, which might maybe even more logical; that he just wants to show that the amps will work fine and sound fine with a range of power cords. There can be others. If I build an amp I wouldn´t want to build one that works better with some power cords, that would be a bad design.

 

I understand your thinking, as you’ve explained it and I appreciate it. Unfortunately, what you presume Gehl thinks is an unsupportable assumption on your part. In no way is it a logical conclusion. Mimicking user experiences can mean any of several different primary things. In fact, to “mimic user experience” as Gehl put it (or as the interviewer put it) is completely ambiguous because the interviewer getting the tour of AR apparently didn’t pursue the matter.

So as usual where so-called high-end cables are concerned, all of the audio component and cable maker comments about them are blatantly ambiguous, and we’re left to attempt to surmise what some individual’s comment actually means.

Notch another one up for the cable makers.

 

Sorry, that is plain ridiculous. Name me one piece of consumer electronic equipment which will not work "fine" with all suitably terminated power cables. And if he really was doing as you suggest, then surely any 'upgraded' cable would work and only really cheap/thin/flimsy cable might be in question. It might be a possible conclusion, but it as far from logical as I think you can get. The 'prove it can handle the weight of a cable' has more merit than this.

Okay, seeing as people are picking holes in such a clear demonstration (to me) that this person believes his systems sound different with upgraded power cables, would you all at least agree that when someone demos equipment he wants it to sound as good as possible to the listener, not as bad as possible? If they were demoing a $/£4k turntable they wouldn't demo this with a $/£30 stylus, or a worn record, or the cheapest interconnects?

Again, this is not an argument about whether upgraded power cables are snake oil, or how exploitative cable manufacturers might be, or how gullible audiophiles are, it is about whether those demoing their products with uprated cables and interconnects are doing so because THEY believe it to be beneficial to the sound?

 

Bad design of the power cord I assume you mean?

Look, to me it is rather simple, people sell their equipment and supply basic level cables and interconnects because this keeps the price down, it stops people like you baulking at paying extra for cables you believe make no difference, it allows people who have a favourite cable make to optionally buy those and they have only had to spend the minimal amount for the inferior (as they view it) cables supplied, and those who are not concerned (yet) with cable upgrades to own the equipment at the lowest possible price. If those people later want to try and squeeze more performance they can then spend that saved money as they see fit, be that new speakers, a listening room, headphones, whatever.

The equipment is designed to work (well) with any power cord, as it is with any speaker, any interconnect, in any room. That does not mean the ability to improve the performance by upgrading components meant the initial design was "bad".