Headphones: can of worms time? looking at under $500

HD600s are my endgame.

 

I agree my 598's se (open) sounded much better with the Schiit Magni 2 amp than without. Different pair of 'phones entirely. I love the sound of these with the amp but openly admit there is a world above these that I don't know about yet.

 

My 598c's run through a Schiit Magni2 (with Modi Multibit and W4S modified sonos.) I too like the sound of the 598s though this little but impressive amplifier.

 

The Magni 2U and Vali 2 are both extremely good value buys for amps these days.

 

thanks, I'm personally struggling to find a good pairing for 650s. so many people say tubes but I think solid state is the way to go with 650s, 600s = tubes

 

People report good results with the Schiit Valhalla 2 with both the 600s and the 650s. It is a tubed unit, both preamp and output (in fact, it is a SET design, I believe), but it isn't a romantic sound at all. The stock tubes are pretty edgy, but once you tube roll, you end up with what I would compare more to a Class A solid state sound. I am still evaluating the Valhalla with my 600s, and it will take me a while because I am primarily a loudspeaker listener (I just want a decent setup for late night so I don't disturb others). I listen to a SET amp in my regular system, and I don't want a HUGE letdown in sound quality when I have to go to headphones. So far the Valhalla is at least accomplishing that. I have put some nice Amperex 6922 white label PQ's in the preamp stage and some gold grid driver tubes in and it has definitely helped the sound. They are not totally burned in yet though. And I have a pair of Russian 1974 Reflektor 6N23P Silver Shields coming that I am going to try as well. I already consider the amp to be a great value. Built like a tank, and the overall package from Schiit is very well assembled and no-nonsense.

 

The common answer I see from Head-Fi is Bottlehead Crack w/ Speedball. DIY OTL tube headamp.

 

I would say you are are right about the 650s. I own a pair, but I have been disappointed with the sound I have been able to achieve with them. Used with my Emotiva DAC/Amp they sound veiled and congested at the top end. I can't imagine that tubes would be a good match with them. I much prefer my Grado 325s, but I would be the first to admit that all of this could be a result of my aging 60 year old ears. Still, for me I suspect the 600s would have been a much better choice than the 650s.

 

id disagree

far from the best pairing for hd650.

 

What do you suggest? I'm not disputing your opinion as I haven't heard the BH Crack/Speedball, but it's definitely on my wishlist.

 

I had the bottlehead SEX, preffered the ifi micro ican. I know the jotunheim is also very synergetic with the hd650

 

From what I've heard and I don't consider myself an expert audiophile or anything..
I think BH Crack or tubes would pair great with HD600s
powerful solid state would pair better with 650s. I cant see 650 pairing well with tubes

 

The HD650 excels with a good tube amp. If you listen to the HD650 and wonder "where's the treble" or hear a veil then the fault is the amp, not the headphones. With a good headphone tube amp suited for the HD600/HD650 the treble is well extended and present and there is no "Sennheiser veil".

In my early days of headphone listening I disliked the HD650. Every time I heard it I was left wondering "where's the treble?" in comparison to my HD580 and HD600. But back then I wasn't listening to good headphone amps. There weren't many good headphone amps around that were accessible. Now that good headphone amps are easily available, and now that I'm playing with good amps I find the HD650 to be just fine (and by just fine I mean excellent).

The differentiator here is that good tube amps are generally on the expensive side of things. Inexpensive tube amps for headphones can have issues you've noticed where the HD600 is more suited than the HD650. But with the better (generally more expensive) tube amps you'll find that the HD650 is awesome and you may find that you actually prefer it over the HD600.

A more suitable generalization is that for the HD650 you might find a sub $500 solid state amp to pair better, in the $500-$1000 range a hybrid may do the trick, in the $1000+ range the tube amps start to kick ass and take names. Tube amps that do the trick with the HD650 tend to be expensive, but there are exceptions.

I'm listening to my HD650 right now and I have no issues with treble or veil. In fact, it's awesome. And I prefer my HD650 over my HD600 with this setup. But I'm using a rather expensive hybrid amp.

 

I love Grados for rock and for "fun" in music. Neutral sounds my butt, bias for midrange is all for me.

However, I would recommend start off with the SR225e for $200 to see if you would like the Grado sound. This is the best value out of the line-up IMO. I had the PS500 and while it was an excellent Grado with more low-end, the highs were too tamed for my taste plus due to the metal weight, it was heavier.

 

That's another constant I've heard, that the 650s scale well, which is probably true but that still makes me question how so many think they're awesome because there really arent that many people out there with $200 headphone amps let only $500+ ones...
I dont find the treble lacking as much as I hear the bass as muddy (compared to the punchy yet recessed and neutral 600s). Someone pointed out that I just may not like mid-bass on the 650s, which could very well be true. I've been thinking all along that a quality amp could reign in and control the bass but it's an expensive gamble, especially for someone that's not THAT into headphones. They're definitely harder to pair than 600s and that alone would give my recommendation to 600s over 650s to anything but the most ardent audiophile with excellent equipment.
Do you you used a balanced cable?

 

I will take your word that the 650s sing with the right high end amp, but I will continue to caution buyers to be aware that they can sound very much veiled and congested when used with lower end stuff. I own an Emotiva DC-1 plus two portable amps (the Oppo HA-2 and the Fiio E12) and none of those can dig any magic out of the 650s. I'm not saying they aren't a good headphone, but they are not a good headphone for me. At the same time, my Grado 325's have great synergy with the Emotiva Amp/DAC and produce a great open sounding top end which I find much more pleasing. I do agree with others who say headphone listening is very subjective, and it is obvious that the 650s are among the most popular headphones out there so clearly a lot of people hear the magic.

 

I hear a lot of feedback that Grados are too bright. I really like my HD-6XX (HD-650 rebranded) with my Schiit Vali 2 with a 1974 Reflektor silver shield. No complaints here. I am tempted to move up the head amp chain but hard to justify spending so much on a head amp.

 

The Fostex TH-X00 Ebony is up on Massdrop. IMHO it is the sweetheart of the TH-X00 series due to its smooth treble. Those are right in your price range at $450. It might be a long time until you get them though, Massdrop is slooow. The Sennheiser 6xx's can only dream of the Fostex bass Most headphones are in that category though.

 

That is an often repeated statement about the Grados being bright. I can only say that I love mine and everyone has to judge for themselves. I am also glad that you enjoy 650s and I need to say that I like the lows and mid range of my own pair. I don't intend to drop big money on a new amp just to see if it sets the 650s free.

 

I do have a balanced cable for my HD650. It has a 4-pin XLR connector. In order to use it with my non-balanced amps I have a short adapter cable with a regular 1/4" TRS plug. I have a couple of balanced headphone amps. The cable is by Custom Cans in the UK. It's an affordable quality cable. I like the litz style cables for headphone cables. The cable is light, flexible, easy to manage, works well and isn't crazy expensive.

For people who don't want to get into the amp side of headphone listening there are good headphones that are easier to drive and that aren't picky about the amp. I'm careful when recommending the HD600/HD650 that people understand the amp requirement to get them to sound good. If you're not going to amp the HD600/HD650 right you may as well save several hundred bucks and get a headphone like the HD598/HD599 or similar headphone that isn't so amp dependent.

The good news is that there are lots of headphone amps available now. At all price ranges. That wasn't the case 10 years ago.

Finding a good headphone amp though is still a bit difficult. Not many local dealers will have good amps to audition. That makes it difficult to audition and find out what these amps are all about. Best way to find out what these various different amps do and how they improve the sound of the HD600/HD650 is to go to regional audio shows like AXPONA or Can Jam where some headphone amp companies will be demoing their gear. And/or find some local head-fi meets.

 

Thanks for the help. AXPONA is coming here in a month and am debating going

 

I own 2 headphones in your price range: The Sennheiser HD 650 and the Grado RS2e. I think very highly of my Grado headphones and can only recommend them. They are easy to drive and sound simply wonderful. About 90% of my headphone listening is done via the RS2e. The HD650 are only used when I want a "neutral" sound stage. They are very nice headphones aswell and everybody seems to love them - still, for my ears, the Grado's offer a magic that the HD650 can't reproduce.

 

Axpona will blow your mind, it has mine 3 diff. years. I am a long time McIntosh owner and I am well familiar with your amplifier.

Great sounding headphones $300 or less:
Koss Porta Pro, UR40, KTX Pro 1 ( these all have very low distortion)
Skullcandy Aviator
AKG 240 ( please shut sound bass shy plugged into a computer, but sound fine plugged into an amplifier)
NAD
PSB
HiFiMan HE400S ( Open back planar, my personal pick, not office friendly)(these have the lowest distortion of any headphone I have ever heard at any price point)

It might also help to know what kind of speakers you normally listen to. I cannot handle bright headphones, so the often recommended Grado do not work for me. Nor do cheaper (sub-$300) Sennheiser.

I go for a totally neutral headphone with very low distortion, those above qualify for the most part. If I need more treble on a particular recording, I will adjust the tone control.

 

Read about the Monoprice Monolith M1060 Planar headphones for $300.00.

 

Grados get steadily less bright as they're used, in my experience (I have 80i, 325is and now RS1e). Which might be the reason a lot of people give up on them early. I don't even think my RS1es are fully broken in yet and they're getting a lot of use

2016 LP remaster of Station to Station on now into them ... sounds great!