Headphones or Turntable

Hi all. I’m about to make my anual pilgrimage to my neighborhood audio store, and I am considering upgrading my system by purchasing either a Clearaudio Performance DC turntable or Audeze LC3 headphones. My current table is a Clearaudio Concept with a Maestro cartridge. With trade in of this table (transferring the cart on the Concept to the Performance DC) the out of pocket cost will be roughly equal. My current headphones are Sennheiser 650s. My amp is a Rogue Cronus Magnum III, which has a decent headphone out included. I listen to music about 75% of the time over my speakers but love the sound of my 650s. I also love the sound of my Concept, but I’ve got the upgrade itch and wonder if people have thoughts about what seems best. Of course, I will demo both items soon before buying. Regarding alternatives to either item, I am wed to the idea of upgrading within the Clearaudio line, but I am open to consider other headphones of comparable value to the LC3. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

I have not been able to hear your Rogue (or similar Rogue) with headphones. I don't know what it is like as a headphone amp. These kinds of choices are impossible for me to go without listening first.

A primary thing I listen for in a headphone setup is a sense of a combination of resolution and transparency. Resolution being the ability to hear into the recording. Transparency is being able to hear through the gear combined with the sound seeming to be around the headphone driver/cup rather than stuck to the driver and stuck inside the headphone cups. This makes more sense once you've heard a headphone system that does that combination of resolution and transparency. It's really special when it comes together with the right gear. The Audeze headphones with the right amps can do the resolution and transparency thing really well. The HD650 can do pretty good at that. The Audeze headphones can do better.

A big thing that is special about good vinyl sound and good analog tape sound is the resolution that allows you to hear further into the recording. Noticeable when you compare CD quality digital to good analog.

So it becomes a decision of whether the turntable upgrade gets you more resolution or the Audeze headphones get you more resolution. The only way to know is to audition with your Rogue amp and find out.

My main headphone system is a Cavalli Liquid Fire amp or Cavalli Liquid Glass amp and Audeze LCD-2 Classic or LCD-2 rev 2 headphones. Both amps are really good at the resolution transparency thing when paired with Audeze headphones. The Liquid Fire is so good at that resolution transparency thing that I actually prefer the LCD-2 headphones with the Liquid Fire over the LCD-3 with most other amps. Because those other amps don't have the resolution transparency thing going on.

With most headphone amps the HD650 and LCD-2 will have a similar level of resolution. When you try the LCD-2 with an amp that has synergy and a special style of resolution transparency the LCD-2 jumps ahead of the HD650 in resolution (the ability to hear further into the recording). So try auditioning a LCD-2 against your HD650 using your Rogue amp and your TT as source. If you hear the LCD-2 letting you hear deeper into the recording than the HD650 then the Rogue is a good amp for the Audeze headphones and the LCD-3 could be a worthy upgrade. Otherwise upgrading the TT could get you more resolution.

 

I would say TT unless you are willing to do headphones and headphone amp. But thats sort of what Ham wrote.

 

I looked at some descriptions of the Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III amp to try to find out how it does the headphone amp.
From AudioAdvisor it says:

Completely New Headphone Circuit
A completely new headphone circuit is based around MOSFET buffers capable of massive current sourcing. The design is basically a simplified single ended version of Rogue Audio's RH-5 headphone amplifier and puts out enough power to drive the most difficult headphones for clean crisp personal audio.​

So I assume that means the headphone amp section is a hybrid? Using the pre-amp tubes and MOSFET buffers?
I'm not clear on its design. But with MOSFETs in there it is not a pure tube headphone amp. But hybrids can be very good for headphones. Especially planars like Audeze.

You'll have to audition Audeze headphones with it to find out how it sounds and if it does a resolution transparency thing. It should be obvious if it is doing something like that when driving the LCD-2 or LCD-3. The sense of resolution of being able to hear more into the recording should happen, along with a sense that your ears are the microphones. If you listen to a good minimally mic'ed recording you should notice with the LCD-2 or LCD-3 that your ears are where the microphones are to a degree that is more noticeable than with the HD650. If the amp is able to do that then upgrading to an Audeze headphone of some flavor would be worth it over getting a better TT. Otherwise, I'd probably upgrade the TT cause that upgrade will benefit both your HD650 and your speakers.

 

I find the Meze Empyrean is really lovely in that price range. They're comfy too. Happy to send you a set to audition.

Industry disclosure: I'm a dealer and sell Meze.

 

With all though respect, but this doesn't seem a question others should be answering for you.........It's feels like you just want someone else to make the choice for you. Not the same as asking to buy a new turntable or getting a better cart or phono stage. Was there no third option, going on a nice little vacation with the wife? If so, do. You both will be happy. No serious, do whatever makes you happy!

 

New TT wont do you much.

 

Thanks everyone for responding. I think I’ll check out the headphones first, to see if there is a clear jump in resolution that I can hear. Maybe I’ll even check out other headphone amps for future reference. I’ll then see if the TT can match or better what I get from the cans. I’ll keep folks informed about my findings. Of course I’m open to any other feedback or thoughts still. I probably won’t make a purchase till next month.

 

Just an update to my earlier posts. I auditioned the Audeze LCD 3, Audeze LCD X, and the Sennheiser HD 800 S. The source was an Arcam CD S50, and I listened via the headphone out of a Cronus Magnum III, which is how I’ll use any headphones for at least another year or so, until I can save up for a good headphone amp. I also had access to the Rogue RH5 headphone amp as part of the listening session, and which I used for some A/B comparisons with the Cronus Magnum.
Long story short, I was not smitten with either of the Audeze headphones. I certainly didn’t hear the step up in resolution I was expecting, using either the Cronus Magnum or the RH5. Clearly, there are many variables in this equation, and YMMV, but to my ears the Sennheisers had the best overall presentation. I found myself tapping my toes and bobbing my head as I listened to them. Always a good sign.
I decided that if I got new cans, then I would stay in the Sennheiser family.
But I still wanted to audition the Clearaudio Performance DC turntable before getting the Senns. I went back a week later and did an A/B comparison of my Clearaudio Concept with the Performance DC. The amp, cartridge, and phono stage were identical to my home system. Bottom line: the Concept is a very good table, which I have thoroughly enjoyed. The Performance DC, however, was stunningly better. I knew from the first track that I’d be getting this table, but I spent a good couple of hours listening to various recordings and artists on both the Concept and Performance. Lucky for me, my local audio store gave me a great deal on a slightly used demo model, so I was able to take it home that day. I have spent the last week staying up late into the night listening to everything in my collection. There is clearly an upgrade in resolution over the Concept, and I’ve been especially impressed by the luscious beauty of vocals and horns. There is a wow factor and a depth of tone/sound/beauty that is hard to describe.
Of course, everyone’s ears, systems, and overall tastes are different, but if anyone is curious about the Performance DC, I’d urge them to check it out. This listener couldn’t be happier with it.