Headphones sound improvement

I have a fairly decent set of headphones, a Sennheiser 598SE hooked into the headphone port of my integrated amplifier, again a very decent top of the line Cambridge Audio, the Azur 851A.

Regrettably, the sound I get from the Sennheiser leaves much to be desired, at least to my ears. Not to say that it's bad, it's quite decent, but not awe-inspiring, if you know what I mean. To put it in perspective, I like the sound coming from my speakers, yet another decent piece, Wharfedale Diamond 10.7 towers a LOT better than I like the headphone sound, it gives a better soundstage and a feeling of 3D.

Now, I can't claim a lot of experience with good quality headphones, but, general knowledge has me thinking that a good pair wrapped directly around your ears should produce better quality sound directly into your ears than the speakers you hear from quite a few yards away. Even with the cheap iPhone earbuds, the sound I get is better than the sound coming out of my computer speakers, when playing the same mp3's out of my iTunes.

So, without further ado, what would you gentlemen suggest, those of you with headphone expertise? Should I get a better pair of headphones? Should I perhaps get a dedicated headphone amp? Will a better pair of headphones sound better plugged into the same integrated amp of mine? Or, will a good headphone amp improve sound going to my current headphones?

As we say in Russian, I don't want to put the carriage in front of the horse...

P.S. If I DO get a headphone amp - where does it get plugged in on my integrated amp? Pre-out?

 

Hi Benzion,
I have not listened to the 598-SE, but will make a suggestion based upon other Sennheiser users. I think you'd be happier with a better model, the HD-600SL, or HD-650SL. The 600's are said to be more neutral, the 650's just a little enhanced in bass response. Your Azur 851A should be capable of driving the Sennheisers, and sound very good. However I do not know at this time if your headphone jack is padded down from the power amp, (series/ parallel resistor attenuation) or driven by a dedicated internal headphone amp. For headphone listening, the dedicated headphone amp is superior to the padded down design from the power amp section. If your amp has a high quality headphone amp built in, then you'd hear less difference from a separate headphone amp. Otherwise I would look into a headphone amp. Most headphone amps include a level control. The headphone amp connects to "rec out" on your Azur 851A, which is exactly the same as "line out" on your CD/ SACD player.

Also, make sure your speakers are off when using headphones. The headphones will sound very bad when your speakers are also playing.

 

If there is any way you can try your current headphones with a halfway-decent headphone amp to get an idea whether or not the headphones are the real problem, that's one of the things I would consider doing first.

However, now that I think about it, you have Wharfedale Diamond Series speakers, so I assume you like a slightly-warmer, more-musical sound, right? So I have to ask. Have you ever tried Grados? They're made right in NYC if I remember correctly. I love my headphone sound, but I'm running Grado RS2's into the headphone-input of my vintage, all-tube Fisher 800C receiver, which just happens to have a wickedly-good-sounding headphone channel. That said, Grados are super-easy to drive, and I can't help but wonder if perhaps a pair of Grados into your Cambridge amp's headphone-input might suit your tastes better than your current Sennsheisers combined with a headphone-amp and your Cambridge. The Grados have amazing sound for how much they cost. My RS2's were not cheap, but they sound AMAZING plugged into the Fisher. I had a pair of Grado SR80's prior to upgrading to the RS2's, and I really-liked them a lot. Grados are even great with portable mp3-players, so if they suit your musical tastes better than the Sennheisers, then they might be the better choice in terms of upgrades. But it depends on the kind of sound signature you want. Anyway, just a suggestion. If you haven't tried Grados, then I would try a pair of those before putting more money into a headphone setup that may/may not be the most-suitable for you.

 

Thank you! I'll look up the specs of the Azur to see it it has a dedicated headphone amp.

 

Thank you! Honestly, Grado's are always at the top of my list, but... They sound a lot better than they look and, most importantly, FIT. I like my ears comfortably cupped. Grado's look like they just sit on top and could/would slide off periodically.

 

Try this at moderate volume for several hours ... and then voila!

Audio Burn-in Download »

 

I have the 598se's and the 650's, and like Gang above. I use a vintage receiver (Sansui 9090) to spectacular results. That being said, the 598se's don't sound great out of the Sansui. I think its an impedance issue. The 598's are only 50 ohms. The 650's on the other hand at 300 ohms sound ridiculously good out of the Sansui.

How do the 598's sound out if your portable units? Mine sound excellent out of my LG V10 phone, and Asgard 2 headphone amp

 

I am no expert but I would say a headphone amp. I picked up an Oppo HA-2 amp/DAC last year. Wile I have used it mainly with my MacBook and iPod the few times it was hooked up to my disc players I was very happy. I've used it with Grado 125 and 325, Senn HD650 and PX-100 II, and Monster Ibeats. All sound better through the Oppo.

 

If you are looking for the same sort of listening experience from headphones that you get from speakers, changing headphones amps or headphones won't get you there because as they say, "you can't get there from here" ( or maybe from hear ). These are two very different listening experiences in terms of soundstage, etc. and even with a very good dedicated headphone set-up, they will still be two very different listening experiences. Each has pluses and minuses. Many have a preference for the sound of speakers and for them, headphone listening will never satisfy in the same way.

D.D.

 

I'm a big fan of using crossfeed to make headphone listening more like speaker listening. I use an app of my phone (CanOpener), but there are hardware solutions available.

 

Gentlemen, I'm grateful for your input. The overwhelming advise here is to get a headphone amp. So, I've done just that - just ordered a Pangea Audio HP 201, a hybrid MOSFET/Tube little gem (if I am to believe the reviews) with a 12AX7 valve. It's entry level audiophile piece, as I try to ease into hi-end material gradually, instead of plunging head first into those exorbitantly priced pieces from well-established brands. At $200 (50% off the regular $400 price), it should be a nice entrance into that world.

In the meantime, you gave me a good idea - I will try to hook up my Sennheisers directly to my Cambidge Audio DACMagic Plus, which I use with my CD transport, to see if I get better sound out of that. If CD's were all I played, I might have stuck to that, period, but I play 4 components: Vinyl, CD, Tuner, and Cassette deck, and would prefer to be able to get them all looped through one headphone output, which is only possible either through my integrated, or through a dedicated headphone amp.

Once again, thank you all. I will report on the Pangea HP 201 performance once it's up and running.

 

I looked into it, but that would entail another amp that has the feature built in, and I just ordered a headphone amp without it. Plus, all of them seem to be solid state, whereas I prefer the tube sound. Let's see what happens, I can always upgrade.

 

The issue here is not the headphones - it's your source. Try the new amp and see if that fixes it.

 

I've looked into the Azur's specs. They boast specifically of it essentially being a double-mono design, with separate transformers and whatnot for every channel, plus separate power supplies for pre- and power sections, which is great, I may say. No word extolling the virtues of their headphone section, aside from saying it's designed to handle impedance from 32 to 600. So, I will presume it's a padded down offshoot. No biggie, I already ordered a dedicated headphone amp - can't wait.

 

Based on collective advise, I've hooked the Sennheisers directly to the phones jack of my DAC - Cambridge Audio DACMagic Plus. Just having done that, without listening to the same CD through the amp's phones jack for comparison, I'd say there's a big improvement in sound. So, perhaps it was the source and not the phones. I will do the comparison just to be sure, some other time, and report here.

 

I own an 851A & I think this amp is a lame duck. No umph whatsoever in the sound. No Dynamic punch, bass or treble. No better than plugging your headphones straight into the headphone jack on a CD player. To really test a good set of headphones, try the Marantz PM-6005 amp - way more grunt & runs rings around an 851A.

So I figure its the 851A is the problem. I wasted $2000 buying one of these amps. Big disappointment.

 

Go to some audio dealers and audio shops in New York that have headphones and headphone amps available for demo. There's several shops in New York that have headphone expertise and a variety of headphone gear to try. Listen to a bunch of different headphones and amps and gear. Find out what headphones and gear manages to give you the sonic magic that works for you. You may even find something that you consider awe-inspiring. You won't know what that gear may be until you listen. The headphones that I like and that I find awe-inspiring may not be what you find to be awe-inspiring.

There are also head-fi meets that happen in NY. Watch the regional meets forum on head-fi. Meets will have a variety of gear that you can try. Dealers will also show up for bigger meets like NY style meets.

 

I disagree. I like mine. Perhaps you're running the wrong speakers. Perhaps you don't have it plugged into a decent power conditioner with EMI/RFI filtering, which helps a lot. Perhaps your components are not up to par. The are so many links in the chain, that it's pretty hard, right off the bat, to blame the amp for it. It may not be the best amp for headphones output, as we have more or less established, but it's hell of a nice amp, as far as I can hear...

 

Since we are using headphones, speakers usage is irrelevant. My other gear sounds fantastic through the Marantz. The 851 has that "British sound" - no grunt.

 

To each his own.

 

Which is why I suggested auditioning and listening to a variety of headphone gear to find out what works for you. You can't trust someone else's ideals for good headphone sound to match up with your own. Some people prefer a hyper-dynamic sound that can slap you around while other people realize that sound needs subtlety and the ability to draw you in to the recording.

My personal preference for headphone sound is sound with a presentation that is able to draw you in. Sound that doesn't push you away. Sound with smoothness that allows for subtlety and depth and space. I'll sacrifice some transient snap in order to have a sound that is actually enjoyable for me and that presents the music in a way that is enjoyable for me.

The Senn HD598 are in that camp. Smoother sound that doesn't push you away due to hyped dynamics and hyped transients. I do consider the HD598 to be more of a very good mid-fi headphone than a high-fi headphone. The HD598 isn't quite resolving enough to be a high-fi headphone. It's sound doesn't quite let you hear into the recording the way a high-fi headphone can. The HD600 and HD650 has a similar Sennheiser style sound, but is able to let you hear into the recording and hear into the gear that you have connected. However, the HD600 needs a good amp to achieve that. If you don't have a good and suitable amp for the HD600 it's not going to sound better than the HD598, and may even sound worse. With a good amp and source it will deliver better and more high-fi sound than the HD598. The HD600 and HD650 will scale with better amps and better sources while the HD598 doesn't really scale much and doesn't really show the benefits of better amps. The HD600 and HD650 do well with tube amps, especially if you're after a smoother style of sound that tube amps can do.

 

Thanks! I've already ordered an entry-level tube headphone amp - the Pangea Audio HP 201. I will try the 598's with it, first. If there's no real improvement, I have pretty much narrowed my search down to Sennheiser HD 650 (same as 600 but with "hand selected components" and some special silk), or the HiFiMan HE-400i, the magnaplanar ones.

By the way, what is your opinion of the magnaplanar type, and of the HE-400i, if any?

 

Reporting: the Pangea HP-201 headphone amp arrived today. Listening to it now. What can I say - there's a significant improvement in the quality of sound. I can hear the proverbial "warm" tube sound. The music just comes out more lush and feels like it it surrounds your ears. And this from an entry-level $200 ($400 at full retail, if we are to believe them) little amp, using the fairly mediocre (in the hi-end sense of the word, which should mean "really good" to any normal mortal who isn't an audiophile) headphones that only yesterday I was unhappy with.

A few things are apparent to me now: A) the speaker tap on an integrated amp is insufficient for true audiophile experience, at least not on my Azur 851A;
B) Headphone amps really DO make a difference and, obviously, the better they get - the more difference they make; and, C) - if you upgrade to better headphones, too, the resulting ensemble should take you straight to heaven, or the vicinity thereof. I will now, therefore, give serious thought to those Sennheiser 650's or the HiFiMan 400i's.

I thank everyone for your participation and advice.

Happy listening!

 

− Q

Just to put my two pence in. I have the 400i headphones.Best ones i have had which have included shure 1540,oppo pm3,grado 325i.Great mid fi phones.You will not believe the things you will hear in your fav songs that were there all along but you did not have the"gear"to bring the details out.I am waiting on a second hand woo audio wa7+wa7 tp tube duo to run my he400i's.A bit of overkill for the 400i's as they are easy to power and according to some folk do not scale greatly with better gear but what the hell a dose of quality never hurt and they look so damn cool as well.I bought my phones without hearing them but i did my research for the approx sound of them so was not flying totally blind about the sound signature.Good luck. John

 

Want the best bang for buck amp - go PC to Oppo HA1 to Oppo PM3. Such a good setup. Im totally bored with my headphones but am way too lazy to sell them. Sitting with sets of LCD3F's, HD800s, EL8s etc here just doing nothing. Once i got my speakers and stereo setup the headphones are kinda pointless.