Help me build my system to match my "new" B&W Nautilus 804's

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Bananas&blow, Oct 22, 2017.

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  1. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    The Oppo 105 can be used to rip SACDs. It can also decode HDCD. It's got some useful features.
     
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  2. captwillard

    captwillard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville
    You do understand that we were talking about used Ckasse’?
     
  3. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    In what way? If you were designing an amplifier, would you aim for those specifications? What do the dynamic power figures equate to in real terms?

    That may well be true, but I would not include N804s in 'most real world systems'.

    And in my experience all the best sounding amplifiers have had this characteristic, regardless of whether the loudspeaker is a difficult load, or not. The OP mentioned a budget of $5k, which could find him a suitable power amplifier on the used market. However, he may need to attend to more issues in order to achieve the improvement in performance he is seeking. He will have to decide whether everything must come out of the $5k, or not.

    No one has suggested he not try his Yamaha (which he has already reported that he has done), but the thread is 'Help me build my system to match my new B&W Nautilus 804s". The OP has also reported not being wowed by the change, hence all the suggestions.

    And all I am doing is answering the OP's request based on my experience of using a lot of B&W N8xx speakers.

    Because the OP started this thread to ask for specific amplifier recommendations, and we are responding to that

    That is your view, whereas the OP asked in the first post about recommendations for changes, and I responded to his request.

    Where did I say I used 300 W monoblocks to drive N805s? I actually used 600 W (8 ohms) monoblocks, and, unless you have tried the combination and found it to be deficient, I don't see the problem. Hugely powerful amplifiers like the Pass X-600s are exactly what most speakers need in my opinion. Great control, virtually unlimited headroom, no clipping, etc., etc. What is not to like?
     
  4. RiCat

    RiCat Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I bought a pair of Focal 948. They are efficient (96-97Db). Started with my then existing amp an older 120w/chn Hafler. Sounded ok but... Borrowed a friends Halo A21 250w/chn and things sounded more like what I expected from the dealer demo. Then settled on my current Bryston 300w/chn. A def, dumb and blind kid playing pinball could tell the differences. Do I think the 50w diff. between the Halo and the Bryston made much difference, no I think it has to do with overall amp design and build quality. My reply to the OP and his inquiry is to buy the most power at the highest quality he can afford. And he should keep in mind that as good as his Yamaha front end is, he will want to upgrade the preamp soon after.
     
  5. lonelysea

    lonelysea Ban Leaf Blowers

    Location:
    The Cascades
    I tend to favor quality over quantity, so high powered monoblocks for the sake of having more power than I need, doesn't interest me. My next integrated might even be a Vitus s/s that pumps out an impressive 25 watts of Class A power.
     
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  6. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Perfect Sound Through Crystal Clear Digital

    The Parasound Halo Integrated amplifier is an exceptional piece of equipment, I have it and have been very pleased with the DAC and everything else, it's just a great product, and Parasound products just last forever! It has plenty of power to drive anything! Don't wait, buy it!:righton:

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Davey

    Davey NP: Hania Rani/Dobrawa Czocher ~ Inner Symphonies

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Focal rates their Aria 948 at 92.5dB (2.83V @ 1m), which is still pretty high for these type of speakers with small woofers. Not arguing your points about amp quality, but you don't find many speakers around with 96-97dB efficiency.
     
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  8. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    You should keep the SCD-1 stabilizer inside the player (not on the spindle, of course). Things like that have a bad habit of disappearing! Or, at least, they do around my place!! :)
     
  9. RiCat

    RiCat Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT, USA
    My bad 92.5 is absolutely correct.
     
  10. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I have four pairs of speakers that have over 100-dB efficiency. They are out there and they are not terribly hard to find.

    The problem is that, just because a particular set of speakers are efficient, does not necessarily mean that they sound good. In reality, most do NOT!

    BUT... When you have super efficient, quality speakers, you can utilize the better, but lower power amplifier's.

    That is not to say that a speaker of lesser efficiency, can't sound good, because it/they can.

    The caveat is that, you need large power amplifier's, with plenty of reserve power, as you say.
     
  11. RiCat

    RiCat Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT, USA
    My baseline recommendations and rules of thumb concerning amp size are that the amp never clips driving the speakers to whatever levels (min to max and at whatever impedance is presented) that I want to listen to; that the amp can also provide power peaks to respond to transient demands of my listening tastes at those levels; and that the frequency response (20-20K) and distortion levels stay within the amplifiers' specifications. Pretty simple and basic. There are other things to consider but this is always my starting point and first cut when creating a shorter list of possible amps to buy.
     
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  12. lonelysea

    lonelysea Ban Leaf Blowers

    Location:
    The Cascades
    I usually listen at low to moderate volume levels, but even when I "cranked it up" I never heard any clipping or distortion in the twenty years I had my B&W 802 Matrix 3 speakers, with either my 100 watt (8 ohm) CJ amp or Yamaha 90 watt integrated.
    I'm always curious what effect a more powerful amp would have on my system, but I like the sound I have now and maintain a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude. Also, don't very high powered amps have more of a tendency to be "noisy" (in terms of humming and background sound)?

    p.s. sorry to tangentalize, OP!
     
  13. RiCat

    RiCat Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Bryston 4BSST² plus Bryston BP25-P (amp 300w/chn) full volume on any input selected ear at speakers dead silence. This is as it should be. If there is hum or background noise it is somewhere in you system chain, if the amp is not defective then all it does is amplifies what is there. The amp in my example measure at -115DB s/n.
     
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  14. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    Thank you for the thought and effort put into this response! You definitely know your stuff! As for the room, I'm renting an apartment and it's the only realistic room I have to set up a decent sounding room. So I can't imagine doing any room treatments etc.

    As for covering the TV, I have the front of the 804's about 15 inches out in front of the TV screen, do you still think that will cause a lot of reflections?

    I definitely don't have the funds to take all your recommendations but I'm open to improving over time. To be honest the most I've ever spend on a high fi product is $2000 on my vinyl nirvana TT with Ortofon Bronze and $2250 on these 804's. So yes I could spend up to 5k on an amp, but if I could get 80% of that performance out of a used 2k amp I'd choose the 2k amp.

    Outside of hearing the 800 series in HiFi stores and drooling over them on eBay for 15 years, I don't have any experience with them. The best amp I've ever had is my $900 Yamaha A-S801 amp. So I'm thinking anything from Bryston, Krell, Classe, Parasound, McIntosh is going to blow away anything I've ever owned in the past.

    I'm tempted to buy something like this as a starting point upgrade:

    Classe CA-200 | Solid state | Los Angeles, California 90025 | Audiogon

    If I have an Oppo 105 analogue outs to my Yamaha RX 3030---preouts to the Classe amp above going to the B&W's. I would think that would have to provide a significant upgrade to the sound. How important would it be to get a separate Pre-amp with HT bypass to improve the sound?

    I'm sure based on your experience with high end products my analogue chain might not impress you but I love the sound of my Thoren's TT and Loungeaudio MKIII Pre-amp as a source, which I currently run through B&W CDM 1nt's and I think sounds excellent. I would not be looking to upgrade the TT. Perhaps the Lounge I could upgrade but I like the sound change I got when I added it as well. Thus the reason I feel like the next change should be the amp. The sound anchors I'm sure make a difference, but that would be down the list for me in terms of priority.
     
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  15. IanL

    IanL Senior Member

    Location:
    Oneonta, NY USA
    That Classe would put you in business. I say go for it!
     
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  16. IanL

    IanL Senior Member

    Location:
    Oneonta, NY USA
    BTW, your analog chain sounds very nice. No reason to worry about that. All quality stuff, and nicely balanced. I'm sure it will sound even better once you get your new speakers properly amplified.
     
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  17. RiCat

    RiCat Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Very nice amp. Here is a review (Classé CA-200 stereo power amplifier ). One consideration I would have is that the company is out of the market. Parts and qualified service might be an issue in the future? You do not know the true age or hours it has been used.
     
  18. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
  19. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    Hmmm, yeah I thought that amp was only about 10 years old. I'm still researching but I'm having trouble finding a reason not to buy a gently used Parasound A-21 in the $1700 range. Those are only a few years old and all the reviews I'm seeing on them are resoundingly positive.
     
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  20. toddrhodes

    toddrhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    Keep an eye out for Belles amps too, @Bananas&blow. And if you can find one, any McCormack amp that has already been upgraded should be had within a $2k range pretty easily and will probably be the last amp you'll ever buy. SMC still services them too, despite being owned by CJ nowadays. The older DNA 100/200/500 amps are monsters.

    FWIW, I am back into a NuPrime ST-10, upgraded this time, and for $900, it is just an unbeatable amp. Seismic bass, plenty of grip and control on my Dynaudios, and just pitch black quiet with detail to spare. I know these amps aren't for everyone but it has blown away my upgraded-as-much-as-possible Odyssey Stratos.
     
  21. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    That's interesting - I thought those Odysseys would be hard to beat at their price point.
     
  22. IanL

    IanL Senior Member

    Location:
    Oneonta, NY USA
    This will work too! But I am eager for you to decide already, lol, because I can't wait to hear your reaction the first time you hook those babies up to some high current power!
     
  23. toddrhodes

    toddrhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    Don't get me wrong - the Odyssey IS a great amp. And, apples to oranges? Fully outfitted like my ST-10 is, it's probably 25-30% higher cost. But, I got both used so I only have $900 into each, however that throws a variable into it that's hard to account for. But, I've had issues with the Odyssey and while Klaus is awesome to work with, I'm not looking forward to sending it back down to Indy for a second time. It sounds good - very good even - but the ST-10 sounds better in any category I care about (dynamics, soundstage layering and separation, and the part I can't quantify which is "fun factor") and it's extremely power efficient being a "class D" amp even though it's not really.

    Odyssey remains one of the best bangs for the buck in audio, but I had an ST-10, sold it and tried several amps in between, and came back to it, happier than ever :)

    Edit - confusing wording - the NuPrime is about 20-30% more expensive than the Odyssey
     
  24. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Thank you. Your comments are much appreciated.
     
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  25. amgradmd

    amgradmd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    I think this might be above your budget, but I have the Mcintosh MC205 5 channel amp at 200 wpc. It's amazing. BTW, the MC205 is a little hard to find but the MC207 or MC8207 would also work. You might be able to find a used MC205 for around $4k and the MC8207 for around $5k. I pair my MC205 with an Anthem AVM60, which I can't recomment highly enough. Using this preamp, both my 2 channel and 5.2 sound is amazing. These drive my 804 D3's and I love it. Maybe you could find a cheaper preamp, but you won't find a better sounding one at this price point, IMO.
     
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