Help needed with early UK pressings of Lizard by King Crimson

A bit puzzled by this one. I have two early pressings of Lizard. Both are pink rim island.

Copy A has slightly glossier laminate, sleeve printed by E. J. Day Group, darker blue at top left with dark and gold tracing (possibly a registration issue). Inner sleeve is blue poly-lined paper. Deadwax says ILPS 9141 A2 and additionally (different parts of the deadwax) EG and I-2 on side 1, and ILPS 9141 B2 and additionally EG and I-6 on side 2.

Copy B has a less glossy laminate, sleeve printed by Robor Ltd, and lighter blue at top left with light gold tracing (no dark lines). Sleeve is plain paper. ILPS 9141 A-2U and additionally AC on side 1, and ILPS 9141 B-2U and additionally 2.

I'm puzzled because instinct says that the sleeve of Copy A is earlier, but the record in copy B is earlier. On the other hand, maybe Island used both printers simultaneously for some releases? Or they could have got inadvertently switched, in which case I'd like to switch them back!

Tim

 

Did a little more research; it seems it was common for Island to use both E J Day and Robor and that some early pressings could have sleeves from either printer.

Robor is on the left; suprising how much difference there is.



Does anyone know whether the printers would normally also stuff the vinyl into the sleeves? Is it possible that E J Day sleeves would normally have the blue poly-lined inners but Robor not?

Tim

 

paging @muffmasterh

 

Island Records had 3 Pink Rim label variation...

Which address does appear printed on the inner? Basing Street London W11 or 22 St Peters Square London W6 9nw ?

 

I just traded in a first press of this last week, If I remember I'll check it out next time I'm in the shop, assuming they still have it, from memory it had the glossier sleeve.

 

Sorry, but it is not the "glossy sleeve" that makes the difference.
The pink rim label variation (1st, 2nd or 3rd type?) and the address printed on the outer cover and on the inner sleeve (Basing Street London W11 or 22 St Peters Square London W6 9nw) make the difference.

 

It was a first press, correct matrices, label etc., there's a big difference in the value, but not having it any longer I can't say what address was printed on the cover, I do recall it was the glossier sleeve type, as I said if the shop hasn't sold it I'll check the sleeve out properly. With a serious interest in reggae I'm used to dealing with Island pressings and the small variations, it's just that I wasn't particularly interested in the Crimson sleeve as the record was correct and that's where the value was.

Incidentally I've seen up to three Island sleeve variations on albums where there appears to have been one pressing, or at the very least they used the same stampers, plant and label stock for the records.

 

This detail is very important for record collectors: Island Records moved from Basing Street London W11 to 22 St Peters Square London W6 9nw in 1973. If your copy has 22 St Peters Square London W6 9nw your copy is not a "first pressing".

Then: THIS is the UK first pressing, but THIS is not the 1st UK pressing.
Hope this helps.

 

Do you realize how many sleeves get swapped around on records, how many shops and collectors have matched up a better sleeve with their nicest copy over the years, first pressing refers to the vinyl, not the sleeve, although obviously a first pressing should have the correct sleeve to command maximum value. As for the two labels you link to, one appears to have darker colours than the other, is that what you are referring to, or am I missing something, if it is the colouring then I wouldn't base any judgement on internet pictures of unknown provenance as to processing etc., one of which appears to have been photographed and one scanned, also you do know that colours vary during printing runs, don't you.

 

Yes I do. But the first UK pressing of Lizard did not have the 22 St Peters Square London W6 9nw address. You can swap all that you want, but if you're looking for a first UK pressing you have to look for the "correct" address.

Not all record collectors agree with you.

Yes, as I said above, you're missing THIS THREAD. Please, take the time to read it quietly.

 

That was all I was asking, I'm more than happy to play Island train spotting with you, I have multiple variations of many titles, mostly reggae, as for first pressings I personally agree that everything, record, sleeve, inner sleeve, insert, stickers etc., should be correct, but in the real world many people are concerned about the vinyl pressing and not so much, if at all about the sleeve, as long as it's within the correct period, it's not as though collectors guides tend to provide the necessary information.

 

Thanks.

Copy A (E J Day) has Basing St and a 1st Type label

Copy B (Robor) has no address on the cover and a 2nd Type label

Which is interesting because Copy B has the "2U" matrix which seems to be generally considered the "first pressing" cut.

Tim

 

Just realised that the copy I picked up for 10 euro a few months ago is a first press! Nice condition too...

 

This popular belief is false.
The suffix U stamped in the dead-wax simply does indicate that we're talking about an EMI cutting job done somewhere other than at EMI's own Abbey Road facilities: Island Records outsourced the mastering job to other record labels, in this case to EMI.

 

Thanks. I think we've established that Copy A is older though whether it qualifies as "first press" is a different thing of course!

Tim

 

Your Copy A is a 1st UK pressing. And that's that.
Unfortunately still a few collectors can distinguish the three types of Island UK pink rim variations and this creates a lot of confusion.

 

IIRC, Robor sleeves started appearing much later than EJ Day.

 

The Ernest J. Day Group credits appear printed on outer covers from 1969 to the mid 1970s.
As for Robor Ltd. credits, I think that they don't appear before 1971.

 

I bought Lizard the week of release in South London, UK. I still have it. Perfect condition too.

Glossy laminated outer sleeve. Inner gatefold not laminated
Inner gatefold says "Printed and made by the E.J. Day Group" and Island Records address is printed as "Basing Street, London W11".
Matrix -
ILPS 9141 A - 2U on side one
ILPS 9141 B - 2U on side two
Pink Rim on labels

Hope that helps.

 

Your copy is a cutting by EMI. @onlyconnect's Copy A almost surely is a Polydor cutting.
As for this album, Polydor copies are much rarer than the EMI ones.

1st type Pink Rimmed Island label, obviously?

 

1st type Pink Rimmed Island label, obviously?[/QUOTE]

The "Palm Tree" label, I have many of these including Bryter Later. See Picture 5 here:
CVINYL.COM - Label Variations: Island Records »

 

The Palm Tree label is in the picture number 7. And Lizard with a Palm Tree label is a later reissue.
The Pink Rim label is in the picture number 5. This picture number 5 depicts only the first type of Pink Rimmed Island label; but we know that there are two other types and both are chronologically later than the first type...

 

I thought the first edition has the letters on the spine invested, "King Crimson" appearing on the bottom

 

Mine has number 5, as I stated, the caption below says "Pink Rim or Palm Tree". I did say Pink Rim in my original post.

The spine text is inverted, if that is what you mean, with "King Crimson" at the bottom. The point is that I definitely bought mine the week of release, probably the Saturday, so I would be very surprised if it was anything other than a first pressing. It's academic to me anyway, as I will never sell it.

Does anyone remember what day of the week UK LPs were released in 1970? I had to get a bus to Kingston, and bought LPs from Music Land there, but I always went on a Saturday. It cost £2.15.

 

Friday 11 December 1970.

If you remember exactly, your copy should have the Pink Rimmed label of the 1st type. If your copy doesn't have the 1st type Pink Rimmed label, your copy is not a first pressing and you didn't buy it the week of its release. That is simply scientific.