Help with entry level system (what can I improve)?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by pbiancardi, Feb 23, 2015.

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  1. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    It won't be difficult to find better stand mounted speakers discounted from SRP $1,000 to under $800. You won't hear what they can do without proper placement or adequate amplification.
     
  2. pbiancardi

    pbiancardi Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dyer, IN
    So this sounds WAY better than what I had -

    [​IMG]

    Tweeter is about ear level from listening position, speakers spread apart and away from the wall.

    Does this look better? Still not there? I can spread apart another 1' or so (speaker sticks out but its my basement so my way).
     
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  3. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    Better now. Another inch would help indeed. You could move everything to the right to take the left speaker out of that corner but I guess that would put the right speaker in your way when you reached the bottom of the stairs.

    The rest of the room seems pretty busy so if you're not in the mood for major rearrangement and moving some furniture out I'd say leave it the way it is.
     
  4. pbiancardi

    pbiancardi Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dyer, IN
    OMG do I feel stupid....I dusted recently and when plugging wires back in I had the pre-amp plugged into the amps loop output instead of the line input....that explains my sudden feeling that something didnt sound right.

    Still ordered stands and will setup as advised here, thanks (sounds better than ever now with wires correct and speakers temporary elevated on cat litter containers).
     
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  5. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, ID, USA
    I think Waxfreak means another foot (apart) ... yes, possibly would sound better. The tricky part is not having them so far apart that the center image gets pulled 'apart'. Lead vocals usually are placed center, if the image of the singer sounds 'stretched' maybe move them back together a bit. If you're still sitting at least as far away as the speakers are apart, probably not a problem though.

    Looks like they're pretty much pointed in toward your head, I think that's a good thing (unless things sound too 'hot' then maybe point them more straight ahead). Try some area rugs (or a large single one) on the floor in front of the speakers?

    I still think your idea of 'best placement' (from your earlier pictures) is the way to go, that gets walls etc. more away from the sides of the speakers. Here, you still have a wall/door to the left of the left speaker ... may 'blur' the image?

    Heck, whatever sounds best to you is OK though! These are just general tips for better/best sound.
     
  6. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    ' stands for foot ? Sorry about that. Yeah but every inch counts. I have a similar problem in my room. My speakers are not as crammed together as the OP's but not as far apart as it would be ideal. I'm 8ยจ short but I'm used to it.
     
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  7. As long as you are experimenting with system placement, (which is a good thing) why don't you go ahead and try what you proposed in the last picture in your post #14. I think your idea here may work best for you---at least it is worth a try. See how that sounds and don't forget to try moving your speakers away from the back walls a bit. Also, the suggestions to get some area rugs on the floor and wall treatments are good ideas, regardless of where your final system placement ends up. The Tidy Cat speaker stands were a brilliant idea in order to make sure stands were needed. Now that you know elevating your speakers improves the sound, you can work on a more permanent set up. Good luck and keep playing around until you find the best solution for your room and your ears. What sounds best for you is what's best for you---regardless of what others may suggest. That being said, you will get a lot of good advice from knowledgeable and helpful people on this forum. The time and energy you invest now will pay off big time, as you can make your system and listening area the best it can be without spending much money.
     
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  8. pbiancardi

    pbiancardi Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dyer, IN
    Amen to that, posting on this forum has already improved my system and I all I have spent is about $100 on stands...
     
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  9. Analogman

    Analogman Well-Known Member

    There is no right or wrong speaker placement that can be seen or determined with a tape measure in an asymmetrical space

    The almost mandatory reflex of setting up loudspeakers in an equidistant fashion from some predetermined point is seldom the ideal in the real world (although in many instances it is the necessity)

    It will only work well or predictably if one has an ideal room, shape and treatment wise and even then has to be adjusted for (as with a room specifically built for playback or near field monitoring in a control room)

    Don't be reluctant to move things around a bit (your speakers) and find the right spots for them ACOUSTICALLY rather than trying too hard to adhere to a preconceived spatial relationship, even if they appear a little askew

    Equidistant is a fairly "standard" starting point for obvious reasons (and as mentioned, under ideal conditions) but it isn't necessarily where you'll need to end up to maximize your acoustic space. There are also real world compromises that have to be made as well, I understand that

    A sound level meter would be extremely helpful if you have or can borrow one

    Your bucket solution was a good one. I would have just used those for a while before I spent money on stands. Tried some different heights (buckets and the like) The height changes things too, often dramatically

    I'm not going to lie to you; I REALLY wish you had put a rug down first :agree:

    When you start changing things there is always a "wow" "factor" that occurs, especially if the change is very noticeable. But it's often wise to listen for a while with the new changes and see if you still like them a few days or weeks from now (if you are still listening and not feeling compelled to make another adjustment then that's a pretty good indication that you found a good spot)

    Don't rush it, work with and play with the things you have

    Be as certain as you can, that you have done everything that you can do with what you have, BEFORE you spend a dime

    (ever wonder why there is always so much used "high end" gear and accessories for sale?)

    Analogman
     
  10. pbiancardi

    pbiancardi Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dyer, IN
    I appreciate the advice and I will try and slow down (I have a bad habit of trying to "complete" my projects ASAP and in this case my project is getting my music setup)...
     
    Rick58 likes this.
  11. Analogman

    Analogman Well-Known Member

    That's "OK" to want to get the job done
    Just do it logically and not grabbing for quick fixes ot magic bullets
    They don't exist
    Get the basics done first, optimize what you have and if you still feel like somehting's missing you'll have a better idea of how to proceed

    You already have a good start equipment wise; get it set up the best you can first

    Analogman
     
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  12. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    The rug should be the next step. I see by one of the pics that your pets use this room also. If you are concerned about the pets on the rug you can get a rug that can be rolled up when you aren't listening to music.
     
  13. RDriftwood

    RDriftwood Vintage Member

    Location:
    Midwestern US
    [​IMG]

    This setup, with an area rug, and speaker wires attached (thumb tacks or staples) to the tops and sides of the woodwork around the doors. If you use copper wire with clear insulation, it will look like it's part of the wood. With your new speaker stands, you'll only need to run wires about halfway around the door trim - or the wiring would be less noticeable if you attach the cables all around the door frames from floor, over the top, to floor. Big Bonus: you can run your TV sound through the stereo. I wouldn't want the speaker wires on the floor or under a rug. I might check to see if there is a way to get them under the floor or door thresholds. (Edit: Possibly add small threshold strips in the doorways to run the cables under.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
  14. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    Exactly. I'm surprised you didn't have it set up like that before! I add a throw rug and some acoustic foam panels (maybe 4, they're cheap) behind the speakers and you'll hear a huge improvement. Those foam panels are the "Fake" way of moving your speakers further out into the room.
     
  15. pbiancardi

    pbiancardi Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dyer, IN
    Ok I have my goal for the weekend, move the whole setup to new position and test. Based on everyone's recommendations I am going to just slop it in with the wires laying on the floor and test it for a few days before deciding on how to permanently wire it....

    And I will tell my wife to start rug shopping.
     
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  16. Hipper

    Hipper Forum Resident

    Location:
    Herts., England
  17. pbiancardi

    pbiancardi Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dyer, IN
    Getting there and sounding good.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    The improvement in sound must be exponencial. And just for the price of a few feet of speaker cable. Simple, often-overlooked tweaks usually render better sound than throwing hundreds of $$ at the rigs. I learned that from having to work my butt off to buy my every piece of gear, so every bullet always counted.
     
  19. pbiancardi

    pbiancardi Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dyer, IN
    Yes sounds great, much more comfortable listening position, plus made room for my Mame arcade, wins all around.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Analogman

    Analogman Well-Known Member

    Get those speakers back up the crates after you've listened with them on the floor a bit and see which way works best

    Now that you have spread things out a bit they may help even more
     
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  21. pbiancardi

    pbiancardi Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dyer, IN
    This is actually working out better than expected. I am now going to setup the TV to run through my speakers with the bonus that I use a Roku with Plex Media Server to access all of my digital files / vinyl rips / HDTracks so I can now easily play these on my stereo but question is -

    I had HDMI from Roku to Samsung TV and digital out of Samsung TV (spdif) to sound bar. Now I need to convert that digital output to analog and plug into my Kenwood pre-amp so I assume I need something like Orei DA21X SPDIF to RCA converter, is this going to degrade the quality of my stored files (or for that matter is playing them via Plex / Roku)? All of my digital is converted to V0 VBR Mp3 files.

    Another question is speaker wire, I just got some 16 ga from Home Depot for like $16.00 / 50 LF, should I be looking at better wire or is this "good enough" based on my system?

    Thanks to everyone again, still playing with speaker position to try and find the sweet spot...
     
  22. Analogman

    Analogman Well-Known Member

    Great!
    That's PERFECT, couldn't do any better
    Try to stick to this the best you can:
    [​IMG]
     
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  23. Halloween Jack

    Halloween Jack Forum Resident

    I think using cinder blocks to raise the speakers is a good permanent solution (and maybe adding small rugs to cover the blocks). But I don't know if the forum recommends this.
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  24. pfink

    pfink Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    What is the make/model of your sound bar?
     
  25. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    Insofar as this quest is centered around improving the sound, a DAC is one item you might consider spending up for. That Orei might in fact sound good for the price (I've not heard it), but I'm skeptical of running music audio through the TV, where it is known to be altered in some form or another. You might consider a DAC from forum-favorite Schiit (I know) for around $100, or the one I use, iFi Nano, for <$200. These can be connected to the Roku USB, bypassing the TV altogether. Could be used for 2-channel TV sound as well for convenience; lose the soundbar, unless it exhibits some pleasant fake surround for movies.

    After speakers, DACs exhibit the most significant sonic differences from make to make.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
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