Hendrix "Earth Blues" mystery

OK, I'm trying to sort this out. There are at least 2 different released mixes of the take of Hendrix's "Earth Blues" featuring the Ronettes. For now I'm leaving out any Alan Douglas mixes.

1) The posthumous mix released on "Rainbow Bridge" and EH's "First Rays," featuring some unusally sloppy Mitch Mitchell overdubbed drums and Jimi's voice coming out of a Leslie or a flanger. From what I read somewhere on the internet (George D.?), the drums are sloppy because they actually erased Buddy Miles' drums from the multitracks to make room for Mitch, and he was trying to synch to the guitars.

2) the "earlier"alternate mix on the boxed set. This version has the original (IMHO, vastly superior) drumming by Buddy Miles, unflanged Jimi vocals, and some different guitar parts. It fades out before the very end.

Here's the odd thing: This "earlier" alt mix is listed in the CD booklet as having been created August 22, 1970 from elements recorded Dec 19, 1969, Jan 20, 1970, and March 24, 1970. That places the mix VERY close to the end of the line for Jimi's active involvement, since August 25th was the last he ever recorded in a studio.

According to its respective booklet, the sloppy Rainbow Bridge mix was created May 12, 1971 from elements allegedly recorded Dec 19, '69, Jan 20, 1970, and June 26, 1970. June 26 was also the last recording date listed for "Stepping Stone," the other song remixed with a terrible drum replacement. (That performance/mix is disgraceful compared to the original withdrawn single.)

IF Buddy's drums were erased to put Mitch's drums there, then the alt mix must have been created BEFORE the last recording session for the song.

So, at least one of the following three statements must be true:

Either:
1) Buddy's drums weren't erased to make room for Mitch's, or
2) The date of the "alt" mix is incorrect, and it is actually from before June 26, 1970, instead of August 22, OR,
3) June 26, 1970 wasn't actually the date of the final recording of tracks for that song.

Would Hendrix have authorized the erasing of Buddy's drum tracks, or was this actually done after Jimi died?

 

Good questions. I agree that the mix on the EH "Purple box" with Buddy's drums is much better than the mix with Mitch that was featured on Rainbow Bridge and First Rays of the New Rising Sun. Experience Hendrix really should of used the version with Buddy's drums on First Rays since since Jimi mixed that version well AFTER Mitch recorded his drum track.

Anyway, back to your question, I don't think Buddy's drums were erased when Mitch recorded his drum track. I think the Record Plant was 16 track by laye 1969 (and Electric Lady was 16 track as well) so there should of been enough tracks to keep Buddy's original part.


Slightly OT but what happen to Mitch Mitchell in 1970? He is one of my 3 or 4 favorite drummers ever but his 1970 work, both studio and live, is nowhere near the stuff he was playing with the JHE. Could his skils of deteriorated that fast?

 

Maybe he worked better with Noel?

One would have thought he'd be higher on the radar in the 70's, with someone or other, yes? It is weird that he didn't keep doing stuff. Or am I just oblivious to his later work?

 

I don't think that's it. IMO Mitch was a virtuoso and could of played with nearly anybody. Actually, as I'm sure you know, Mitch did play Billy Cox during the summer of 1969, most notably at Woodstock and several recording sessions at the Hit Factory and his playing on that stuff is as good as his work with the JHE.

Mitch played with a band called Ramatam in the early 1970's. I'm not sure what he did after that...

 

My gut feeling is that they were not erased, and someone used the word 'erased' instead of 'replaced' and it has been repeated over and over.

 

Actually, it was I who said it, and several people over the last several years have stated that Buddy's drumming was literally erased, wiped from the tapes. I know that Douglas said that, and gave that for his reason for using Bruce Gary on his hideous "Voodoo Soup" comp. He explicitly stated that Burddy's drumming had been completely wiped from the Stepping Stone multitrack.

Further more, I have tons of ruff mixes of each of these tunes dating from when Hendrix was still with us, and all of them have loads of different guitar overdubs. One of the mixes of Earth Blues on my shelf nearly sounds like something on the magnitude of a Ladyland song, with at least a dozen intertwining guitar parts, lots of feedback sustain and flanging. Its over the top. Apparently those parts were mixed out, but on the Box Set mix, there are a few guitars still going on. If every one of those elements were still extant on the multitrack, it would have to be 24 track at least.

GD

 

Interesting. I haven't heard any mixes of Earth Blues outside of the one on First Rays (same as Rainbow Bridge) and the purple box. The session notes, mixing dates, etc on the EH releases seem to be accurate as far as I can tell. I tend to believe that the 7/22/70 mixing date Earth Blues with Buddy is accurate but I guess it's possible it isn't.

IMO the First Rays mixes that were done during Jimi's lifetime are MUCH better than the later posthumous mixes. Take Drifter's Escape for example, the Hendrix mix really grooves when compared to all of the later mixes. Ditto for Coming Down Hard On Me. I would like to hear the rough mixes of In From the Storm as the 1971 mix used on Cry of Love and First Rays is just terrible IMO. The hi-hat is louder than everything else!

One Experience Hendrix does that I really like is that for outtakes and unreleased tracks they tend to use vintage mixes prepared by Hendrix/Kramer when available. The "purple" box has alternate, early mixes of Ezy Ryder, Nightbird Flying, Gypsy Eyes, Little Miss Lover and If 6 Was 9 that were done during Jimi's lifetime.

 

Anyone know when the Record Plant and Electric Lady went to 24 track?

 

Where can one hear the Hendrix mixes of "Drifter's Escape" and "Come Down Hard on me"?

The mix of "Room Full Of Mirrors" ain't great. It was supposedly a rough mix to get the drum sound right....why didn't they remix it so that the vocals could actually be heard? I fear it was another one where the drums might have been wiped at the time (after that mix was done), given that it had Knack drums on Voodoo Soup.

 

The Hendrix mix of Drifter's Escape is on South Saturn Delta. The Hendrix mix of Come Down Hard On Me is on the purple box.

I really hate that mix of Room Full of Mirrors on First Rays. The slide guitar is WAY too high in the mix and the drum sound is awful. My favorite version of Room Full of Mirrors was recorded in 2/69 with Mitch and Noel at Olympic. This version has never been officially released but it's been booted forever. It's subdued and slow with a sort of tribal beat and much more passionate vocals. This version KILLS the later 1970 version...

 

Mitch did some recording - replacing or adding drum parts - after Hendrix's death in September 1970 - apparently these recording sessions are not well documented, and perhaps in May 71 when or just before the Earth Blues recording was mixed Mitch overdubbed his parts. Mitch was on the payroll of the Hendrix people at this time (Noel was not) and worked on the posthumous releases through War Heroes I believe. He added parts to Drifting (and a marimba was added?), to Angel, and several other songs to prepare them for release.

I agree Buddy's original parts were superior in several instances, certainly on Stepping Stone. Although his part was wiped from the multitrack, it still existed on the stereo mixdown tape of the single which was used for the Voodoo Child Jimi Hendrix Collection. On Voodoo Soup Alan Douglas wanted to remix everything from the multitracks so he had another drummer try to replicate Buddy's parts, replacing Mitch's drums on the track - but the Voodoo Child CD (2 CD's actually) is the one to get for this song.

 

Mitchell replaced the drum parts to the following Hendrix tunes:

Stepping Stone - certainly done posthumously
Drifting - certainly done posthumously
Angel (which he also double-tracked) - certainly done posthumously
Earth Blues - I believe posthumously, but the dates on the liner-notes don't agree
Bleeding Heart (War Heroes) - certainly done posthumously
Freedom - Just a posthumous double-tracking job
Tax Free (War Heroes) - certainly done posthumously

In every one of these cases I have in my collection several rough mixes of the songs in progress.

One mix of Freedom contains an entire instrumental section that was edited out, a very prominent piano overdub, and single tracked drums.

I have at least a half-dozen rough mixes of Stepping Stone, including one that is just the basic tracks (Buddy's drums, one live guitar, a different bass-track and a very raw live vocal.)

Of Earth Blues, I have four different unissued mixes, one raw like Stepping Stone, and others with different guitar tracks. All contain Buddy's drumming.

Of Drifting I have rough mixes of two different takes, one very long and sloppy, more of a rundown, and one with a different drum track, preceeded by Jimi saying "Lemme get some sea-sounds."

Of Tax Free I have a circa 1968 rough mix of the track as it stood during the Ladyland sessions. It contains an entirely different drum track (one fill of which is used in the War Heroes / South Saturn mix). That great Mitchell fill at the intro isn't there, and his entry is pretty weak.

Of Angel I have a rough mix of the raw track as well as one containing the fabled "toms being played with malletts" overdub that was later wiped when Mitch double-tracked the drums. There is a load of gratuitous reverb on it, and it's frankly not too great. The mix is sort of lacking in context.

Of Bleeding Heart, I have one rough mix with a completely different drum track, but with all the other elements there, including a bit of guitar noodling after the cold ending.

I do also have a couple of rough mixes of In From The Storm, but none of them are anything to shout about. I also have roughs of Message To Love (with the "I am what I am, thank God" section which was literally cut out of the multitrack by Mr. Douglas and Tony B. in the '70s), rough mixes of Ezy Ryder with different guitars and vocals, and a several roughs of Power of Soul, including one that absolutely SMOKES the one on South Saturn. (More on that later). Obviously, all contain Buddy's drums.

I wasn't there, and I don't know any of the parties involved, but I do have a ridiculously extensive collection of Hendrix tapes and whatnot, more than I'll probably ever have time to really sit and listen to.

After all of this, I admit I have a hard time believing that Mitch did any drum-track replacing during Hendrix's life time. Hendrix was definately not pleased with the drum sound or the mix on Room Full, but the mix that is out there is the closest thing to a final that was performed in his lifetime. There are no documented remarks where Hendrix expresses reservations about Buddy's drumming or the sounds on any of the other tracks mentioned here. Certainly, to my ears, the recording of Buddy's drums on all the tracks barring Room Full is quite satisfactory. I actually don't care for the sound of Mitch's drum-tracks on First Rays / Cry Of Love.

You also have to ask why Hendrix would want to wipe Buddy off of all those tumes, but keep him on Ezy Ryder. And we KNOW he planned on keeping Buddy on that one, because we have Hendrix's approved final mix from just a week or so before he left the states for good.

Another issue I have with the dates and claims in the liner notes of various EH releases regards Power Of Soul on South Saturn. The liner notes say "The version featured on this compilation discards the posthumous additions, restoring the full-length version with all of it's regal glory intact."

That is a lie. Several of the edits made by Douglas are still there, because Douglas unashamedly cut-up the multitracks. EVERY rough mix I have runs substantially longer, and I'm not talking about longer fades or cold-endings. There are lyrics missing.

One edit at 3:00 removes the words, "Come on back down to earth, my friend..." Another at around 4:20 removes the words "Yeah but he's been floating around so easy and so slack, he don't have a bone in his jelly-back, is that the way you wanna be brother? Check it out..." Check your copies of Crash Landing and you'll hear the same edits. In fact the only difference between SSD and CL's mixes are that on SSD the intro and endings are left basically intact, and there are some different guitar tracks. Regarding the guitar tracks, the CL mix is actually closer to the roughs Hendrix made than SSD.

The liners further state that in August of 1970, the song was "treated to a new rough mix resulting in the unique delay effect heard during the song's opening." So if that effect was applied during a 1970 rough mix, what is it doing here on a July 16, 1997 remix featuring Douglas' edits?? (I'll leave aside that fact that that delay effect is annoying as hell to me.)

I could go on for six hours with stuff like this, because there are dozens more discrepancies where EH's date-claims can be called into doubt. In a few areas EH has done nearly as much tinkering as Douglas did. They simply haven't added new musicians.

GD

 

Positive.

Thats what the liner notes say, but in Kramers own book he talks about mixing that song after Jimi died. See, I don't think anyone really knows anymore where those tapes were or when. Im basing my claims on the rough mixes, so I certainly could be wrong. Its just that the more I read and hear, the less I believe that Hendrix went about replacing drum tracks.

You may very well be right.

GD

 

Thank's for ANOTHER reminder that I must purge my Jimi collection of AD ( After Death; Alan Douglas) releases.
I am one, of the few, who enjoyed Voodoo. However, now that I have Loose Ends, my fave for tracks & sounding sooooooooooo live in the studio (my fave sound, too boot! Pun intended.) I'll be able too throw out the soup.

 

WoW!!!
GD,
That's great & sad, at the same time, news. I'm sure everyone is overwhelmed by Jimi's studio output. Obviously, EH is! I don't believe them too be malicious in anyway, ala Douglas. Yet, I've been disappointed by their lax releases. Especially, on DVD. Instead of picking though every thing, the archives have to be released just in chronological order, too satisfy 'us'.

I heard about this when the LP's & cassette's were first being released. It was a criminal act then, and even more criminal now!

 

I hope you're not picking on me for saying "I have" so many times. I'm really not trying to be a braggart, just backing up my thoughts on the overdubbing thing. a good portion of what "I have" is commonly booted stuff, and the rest is stuff I've been graciously given. Obviously, I make no attempt to profit from it. Actually, I have tried on a couple of occasions to start organizing all of it, but I can't. It's crazy how much exists, and I sure don't have it all. I know plenty of people who have copies of things I don't have.

GD

 

I don't really believe that there is malice on the part of Douglas or EH. But I do believe that profit is the number-one motive of both parties, and that neither party has been 100% truthful.

I would never expect EH to release everything. They would never make enough money from it to even pay for the project, let alone profit from it. I applaud their "Dagger" releases. I consider it a worthy thing both for collectors and for their business. Bootlegging sucks, but in a way so does knowing the existence of something a collector is dying to hear and can't. This solves the problem.

But even if they were to release some giant, far-reaching series of CDs of unreleased sessions, the question is how to organize it. I mean, I can't cope with organizing my collection, and theirs has to be 1000 times bigger.

The impression I have is that a huge portion of the Hendrix "library" is a colossal mess of mis-labled, mis-boxed, disorganized reels of every imaginable format that would take a team of five people 20 years to sort through and accurately annotate. I also KNOW that there are still many dozens of people out there who possess multitracks, mixdown reels (probably nothing final), video and film stock and live multitracks who simply will not fork them over to EH. I don't know them personally, but I know they're out there. Some people just don't seem to like EH. Their particular reasons I don't know.

Gd

 

Can give us a general idea of what multitracks EH doesn't have? I know they don't have the live Band of Gypsys multitracks (Paul Allen has those) and they don't have the Albert Hall footage. It's been reported that they now have the Miami Pop pro shot footage. I'd love to see the film of the aborted 1/28/70 Band of Gypsys Madison Sqaure Garden show. According to the Steven Roby's Black Gold book the film of the show was found in the 80's and then lost again

 

The only ones I definately know that EH don't have are the multis for several of Hendrix's concerts, particularly from 1969 and 70. As far as studio multis go, I honeslty don't know any particulars other than that there are some very reliable people who claim to have things.

When Janie and al took over the estate, a bunch of people turned tapes that they had posessed for years over to them. Among this batch were the tapes of the 1969 Olympic rehearsals, for example, and a bunch of Axis-era tapes that Redding and Mitchell did some additional overdubbing to in the '80s. "There Ain't Nothing Wrong" is one that has been released on Dagger. It started out as the tune "Little One." Another still unreleased is the tune "Cat Talking To You," with a 1980's vocal from Mitch. All this stuff has been booted.

What surprised me was when I found out that the multitracks for a couple of the concerts that Douglas released in the '80s are not in the hands of the family.

And no, I don't have any. And no, I don't know anyone personally who does.

GD

 

I've got the audio. It's not a pleasant listen.

Sorry for the back-to-back posts.

Gd

 

I have the audio and a very short color film clip of Earth Blues that was broadcast on French TV. It's obvious that something was very wrong with Jimi but Who Knows has some pretty good guitar moments IMO. He doesn't really sound drunken or smacked out, just extremely spacey. I'd like to see the film just the see what happened that night.