Herb Alpert "The Lonely Bull"

For what it's worth, even Herb himself has spoken about his displeasure of the "Vol. 2" album, so there really isn't any need for anyone here to defend it, as it's not going to win any "brownie points" by doing so! If it were an album by another band or artist other than Herb Alpert, then I might agree that you might find something salvageable with it, but, just knowing the greatest that began to unfold with the "South Of The Border" album and continued very beautifully through "The Beat Of The Brass". That is a great run of quality albums for ANY artist, especially in such a short time period. Naturally Herb would have a lot of other great songs from various albums in the future, but in my opinion, outside of "Warm", "Rise" and "Fandango", the albums didn't have the completeness of satisfaction, that earlier run from "South" to "The Beat Of The Brass" provided.

 

Here is another little nugget to chew on, regarding where Herb was thinking of heading, after he cut and had huge success with "This Guy's In Love With You". I want to admit that I find Herb's singing very charming and heartfelt, but in the end it often reminds me of myself doing a bad impersonation of say, Dean Martin in the shower, which is to say that I would never feel strongly enough about my singing to allow the world to have to suffer it. With that said, please remember that we are dealing with the co-head of one of the biggest independent record labels at the time and he truly did have a HUGE hit with "This Guy's …", so I get it, but, to think that he should set his trumpet down and start to be a Sinatra, may have proven a really bad idea. Thank GOD that his recording engineer Larry Levine once again came to the rescue, when he told Herb, to never release the song that he had just recorded or else Herb's career could have slid completely off the rails.

This is the song in question, which remained in the vaults where it truly needed to stay, until the Shout Factory "Lost Treasures" CD …



The good news is, that thanks to Larry's great opinion, we were saved the humiliation of Herb's "Close To You", that was a huge part of what ended up saving "A&M", when they were in financial trouble (believe it or not) by the late '60's and early '70's, when it was recorded by the "Carpenters".

 

los angeles, baby

 

By the way, Herb naturally tried singing a few more times, with little success, as far as hits go, but I have always looked fondly on his take of Nilsson's, "Without Her", which had a super interesting arrangement by Herb and Shorty Rogers. When those strings come in around the 1:45 mark and that piano clinks out those magical notes, is like a cool summer breeze from my youth!

Here is the song in it's original "mono 45 mix", supplied via u-tube and our forum friend Harry …

 

No thank you. I prefer my cd's.

I get used, in great condition, discs for a pittance and to find vinyl like that...or buying new...is too expensive for me. I'm not sure I'd ever go back even if that wasn't a hindrance.

 

For those who are curious, uninitiated or just want some lite-reading:

http://forum.amcorner.com/threads/single-versions-vs-album-versions.11099/
http://forum.amcorner.com/threads/the-original-tjb-mono-stereo-lps-mix-differences.7831/
http://forum.amcorner.com/threads/various-t-j-b-singles-that-clearly-differed-from-l-p.2807/
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/herb-alpert-and-the-tijuana-brass-mono-or-stereo.182406/

 

Listen to this track. Do you like it or not? What are your impressions?

 

Thank you for the interesting info.

What is your opinion of the stereo mixes?
I have Whipped, & Going Places in both mono & stereo versions, and also most of their respective hit single 45's (which really sound great to me).
I guess I'll have to sit down & do some back-to-back checks - I have not listened to the LP's for some time.

EDIT: The links in the above post (#57) answered my questions - Thanks!

 

I have found memories of the first two albums, and all the albums that followed. This is the first music I remember liking. I was about 4 (circa 1966), and my father was buying the albums as they were released.

I remember wanting to learn the trumpet because of these records. So, around my 7th birthday, my father got me...an accordion! (In addition to Herb, my dad liked polka music). I ended up taking lessons for two years on accordion. I gave it up, and a few years later picked up an acoustic guitar.

Anyway, I still have needledrops of most of the LPs. And I'm re-buying the albums as I see them in the thrifts. I'm trying to get a mono and stereo copy of each.

 

I'm not trying for "brownie points" (whatever that means in this context) if I put on a record and enjoy it, am I?

Herb's displeasure with Vol. 2 was based on sound quality, not song quality. And, since the SQ is similar to the first album (which I like as well - give me more brownie points, someone!) I accept it for what it is - a fun album, and a stepping stone to the later albums that everyone is fawning over.

Without Vol. 2, you don't get to those albums - so a little respect is called for, IMO. Or, at least a little less disrespect.

 

What I meant about the "brownie points" was, that I sometimes feel that people on this forum say overly nice things, possibly thinking that someone like Herb Alpert or even Brian Wilson might drop by and read it. That would be nice and maybe they have stopped by unannounced, but my thinking is, that if a fan of an artist can't be honest every once in a while and say that one of the albums their hero has made, be it old or new, it's o.k. to admit that it's a piece of crap or that you don't care for it. With Herb, I can live with "The Lonely Bull" album and I get it's weak spots, as it was his first album, with portions of it having been recorded in his garage, but for me, "Vol. 2" just seems very quickly and haphazardly thrown together and I really can't accept that, knowing that Herb was coming off a huge hit, with "The Lonely Bull".

It's cool that you like "Vol. 2", but again, no one will feel bad if you agree that it kind of sucks, because it does!

 

I recently did the same thing. It took about 6 months to get the complete mono/stereo set in decent condition. I also found a novelties along the way (WLPs, a Brazilian release, a WG release and the box set).

 

It's good to go back to vinyl every now and then. When I do it always reminds me of why I like CD's.

 

Hey...I loved my records back in their day. But I'm very transient and cd's are as compact as I'll go. I have them all backed up to external HD's...but I have to hold onto my discs. I just love getting old cd's, as yesterday my OJC's of Wes Montgomery's So Much Guitar and Wynton Kelly Kelly Blue both late 80s issues, arrived in perfect condition and sound great ! $4.00 and $3.00 respectively. Ya just can't beat that !

I like lasers instead of needles.

 

Agreed on this album. Except for the title track, the rest is not particularly memorable. However, I personally like Vol.2 (admittedly some of the "party" atmosphere sounds contrived), although even Herb Alpert himself does not think much of it, as it is noticeably absent from the last big TJB reissue campaign with Shout Factory. Vol.2 was not re-issued on CD, and only available as an iTunes download.

However, as Steve says, things did get really rolling in earnest with South of the Border, and probably peaking with Whipped Cream & Other Delights, with no little thanks to the iconic cover "art."

 

In defense of Vol 2, here are some of my favorites (try to mentally filter out the bullring sound effects on the 1st track):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22APQy0G5EY&list=PL0qiP2SYPhXUa6JRWcuOKyFuaHGt8dZ__
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-okKUhF8xY&list=PL0qiP2SYPhXUa6JRWcuOKyFuaHGt8dZ__
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P3iZKPEl2Y&list=PL0qiP2SYPhXUa6JRWcuOKyFuaHGt8dZ__
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMIAH1-zWjY&list=PL0qiP2SYPhXUa6JRWcuOKyFuaHGt8dZ__

 

I picked up a minty mono pressing of "What Now My Love" tonight from a thrift. I love this stuff!

 

Picked up very nice pressing from Germany for Vol. 2 Different cover which is quite interesting.


Rick A.

 

Jeeze, tough crowd! I suppose you're all right, the album is a bit weak in spots. My parents had a copy so it has some sentimental value clouding my judgment. "El Lobo" reminds me a little of "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" soundtrack, another awesome album. YMMV.

 

The first two albums are a bit of a mixed bag. Herb was still looking for his direction. Was it going to be more bullfighting songs? More mariachi-style? Jazz? Pop instrumentals?

Those first two albums explore some of these genres with mixed success. The real mono copy of THE LONELY BULL will have that first single in its true mono mixes. I say "real" because there are now a number of European public domain CDs flooding the market with THE LONELY BULL in stereo and mono. The monos in those cases are likely folddowns or needledrops.

A number of Herb's 45 RPM records have slight variations from their mono LP counterparts. In some cases, it's just equalized differently to maybe emphasize the highs on AM radio. Here's one from that second album, VOLUME 2. The single was "Mexican Corn", which went nowhere on the charts. But the single got a dedicated mix. Listen to the lower piano-note fills that don't exist on th the mono or stereo LP.



Harry

 

And don't forget to stop by the A&M Corner Forum for our autographed copies of COME FLY WITH ME, signed by both Herb Alpert and Lani Hall.

Final week!

Contest! - Herb Alpert SIGNED CD giveaway: TWO lucky winners! »

Harry

 

Most are true mono mixes, handled by Larry Levine (Herb did the stereo stuff himself). These mono mixes were made with an ear toward sounding best on AM radio, so they have more of a punchiness than the standard album mono mixes. In many cases, there's not tons of difference in the overall feel of the mono single mixes - they were designed to sound "right" in their own respect, but also to punch through the noise floor and poor sonics of AM radio, not to mention the cheap record players of the day.

The example of "Zorba The Greek"/"Tijuana Taxi" is often brought up, and it is truly the most revealing of differences. "Zorba" was shortened with part of the middle chopped out, party-crowd noises were added, reverb was added, and an entirely new descending trombone line was added to the final phrase. "Tijuana Taxi" has the same reverb effect added, with more horn-honks and compression, all EQ'ed to punch through on AM radio.

There are other, less dramatic differences on other singles - like on "Carmen". Most of the recording sounds just like the album version, but right in the middle, there's a slow trumpet bridge that links two sections of the recording. On the mono single, that bridge gets the extra reverb treatment different from the album. Herb's vocal on Bacharach's "To Wait For Love" is a different take than on the stereo WARM LP. "The Great Manolete" has some extra trumpet work, and "Mexican Corn" has that added bass notes on a piano.

Harry

 

I can not believe I am hearing this, Steve! Volume 2 is a great, great record. Has some great burlesque numbers goin' on there; Surfin' Senorita & Swinger from Saville also some great mood numbers. A hip record from start to finish!

After Goin'Places LP he seemed to be dialing it in with formula

 

Likewise. Love it.