“Heroes” David Bowie LP (vinyl) shoot-out! I will start with the usual caveat....I invite anyone with two or more LP copies to do a shoot-out and post their results in this thread. German, Japan, USA or anywhere else for that matter are welcome additions that will someday help others. Feel free to disagree with my findings as I don’t take disagreements personal. I could post my vinyl comparisons to digital versions of this music but IMHO they are of little use to anyone other than me. Differences in playback equipment make a significant difference so that would indeed be comparing apples and oranges. David Bowie’s “Heroes” LP was first released by RCA late 1977 in the USA as AFL1-2522 and re-issued in 1980 with a new catalog number AYL1 3857. In the UK the original LP catalog number was PL-12522. I will try to make this as simple as I can. I have three copies of this LP. 1. USA RCA AYL1 3857 (RCA black label 1980 re-issue) Side one: (machine pressed) AYL1 3857A 4 A1E Side two: (machine pressed) AYL1 3857B 1 A1A 2. ITALIAN pressing (TAN RCA label PL-12522 with UK printed cover) Side one: AFL1-2522-A-2 (crossed with a line), PL-12522-A-2 A1-48 STERLING GC Side two: AFL1-2522-B-2 (crossed with a line), PL-12522-B-2 A3-2 STERLING GC 3. UK RCA Orange label PL-12522 Side one: PL-12522-A-3E A49 Side two: PL-12522-B-5E A35 DAVE’S R.C.A. While most people regard matrix numbers as something only “nuts” would pay attention to...the truth is if you want to judge an LP by its sound this is the only way to know what exactly you are describing/talking about. Labels alone are just not enough. Sad but true. Covers...copies 2 and 3 are identical in content except copy two has two extra lines: “ Record Manufactured in Italy” and “ Sleeve printed in England”. Copy two is the clear winner: laminated thick cardboard with sharp dark image. Copy three is printed in thin cardboard and the image is lighter. Copy one is a fine yet typical no bar code US cover. Sound: This is a classic OK (1), better(2), best (3) scenario. The US re-issue (by comparison) sounds bright, lacks resolution, and bass. The Italian pressing sounds much better. I don’t have a US first pressing, but I do have Lodger and Scary Monsters US first pressings. I would bet $ that the stampers used in the Italian pressing are identical to US first pressings. The key is in the “STERLING GC” in the dead wax which is also present in the matrix of US first pressings of those later records. Note the crossed USA catalog numbers in the Italian matrix. The Italian pressing sounds VERY clean with silent vinyl. But then...there’s the UK orange...this pressing sounds clearly superior....cleaner highs, less distortion, more bass..simply more musical and easier on the ear. Clearly the winner. Copies 1, 2, and 3:
Hi Ben, Thank's for your comments on this. My UK RCA Orange label PL-12522, has the following in the dead wax : Side one: PL-12522-A-3E A4AD Side two: PL-12522-B-5E A3X DAVE’S R.C.A. A minor difference. I agree that the UK RCA "Heroes" sounds better than the Italian RCA. I don't have an American pressing of the album. My general thoughts are that the UK RCA Orange label pressings of Bowie's albums are the best sounding (I have all of them, starting at TMWSTW).
I can tell you without even having to do a shoot out that the my Japanese issue is nothing to write home about. It sounds very similar to the Italian issue I have. The thing is I have just about every pre-lodger bowie on Japanese vinyl and two of them sound great (Hundy Dory and Aladin Sane) while the others sound so-so.
I had original Orange label U.S. RCA pressings of all of the David Bowie albums from 'Hunky Dory' to 'Scary Monsters'. I have replaced most of these with Orange label U.K. pressings. Here's my brief analysis: 1. 'Hunky Dory' - UK is better. The original U.S. is one of the thinnest Dynaflex lps I've ever come across and can be folded in half without breaking it. Find a clean U.S., and you're 80% there with the sonics of the UK pressing. 2. 'Ziggy Stardust' - UK. Actually, the original U.S. isn't bad compared to the MOFI vinyl. 3. 'Aladdin Sane' - UK, but the U.S. is very close. 4. 'Diamond Dogs' - Still waiting to find a UK pressing of this. My U.S. sounds pretty good though. 5. 'Young American' - I'm not sure about this one either. I have an Orange label U.S. pressing and it sounds quite good. Wasn't this one recorded and mastered in the States? Is it possible that the U.S. copy is the one to own? 6. 'Station to Station', 'Low', 'Heroes' - The UK pressings are not as bright as the original U.S. vinyl, and have slightly more bass. The overall 'feel' of the lps sounds more correct. 7. 'Lodger' - This is a definite UK. The U.S. is a misdemeanor. 8. 'Scary Monsters' - I have an original U.S. promo. Sounds nice, but a bit bright. I'll have to track down a UK pressing for comparison. For the Bowie/Eno lps, I'd like to track down the German pressings, since they were recorded in, or near the region . Same with the first two Iggy Pop albums. As far as 'The Man Who Sold the World Goes', I'm not sure which corner to turn on locating the best version on vinyl. I have a U.S. Mercury promo. I recall reading here a while back that the UK RCA re-issue from the early 70s was the one to track down.
Try to find a German "Heroes." I think it sounds best, plus Bowie sings part of "Heroes" in German.......
in regards to German pressings - i've got a MINT original RCA pressing of Iggy Pop's "The Idiot" on German vinyl, and it sounds AMAZING, best that i've heard this album ...so, i'd be very interested in scoring some original German LP pressings of the Bowie/Eno triptych - if anyone has any of these, please post your thoughts on how they compare to other releases!
When you're talking about the German vinyl, what issue do you mean? I have a number of Bowie re-issues on the RCA international label, German pres. They are clean but not world beaters by any strech. There are so many Bowie issues, re-issues and re-re-issues its confusing. There was the RYKO clear vinyl with bonus tracks and gatefolds galore from the late 80s (hideous sound but nice packaging), British vinyl circa early 90s late 80s with bonus tracks and the dreaded digital re-mastering, the RCA international German issues I mentioned, ... it goes on and on. I have 4 or 5 copies of each album that I have bought through the years for various reasons. Rule of thumb: Get the early issues of the UK vinyl. Other than that I would opt for the Japanese Hunky Dory and Aladin Sane. Of course I haven't heard everything, just a lot.
The original German 1977 issue RCA PL 42 372. I bought it new. It is easily the best sounding "Heroes" I've heard. Remember: the "trilogy" was recorded in Germany. I'm big on "country of origin" usually sounding best. I also have "Helden" as a 45 rpm single where he sings the whole song in German. The best "Hunky Dory" is the EMI Millenium Master from a few years ago. All analog and awesome. I was lucky enough to tour with Bowie for a magazine during the Ziggy Stardust tour. Saw the show in Boston (hometown at the time), NY (Carnegie Hall), Tower Theater Philly, and Chicago and Detroit (sat next to Iggy Pop). I got to travel on their plane, eat meals with them, watch the insanity, and of course the seats for the concerts were pretty damn good too!
I always assumed that "country of origin" referred to whichever record company owned the rights. the "Berlin trilogy" may have been recorded in Germany, but the tapes and masters were sent to RCA UK, no? hey, I went to a lot of bother to special import a UK Charimsa LP of the first (recorded in Toronto) Peter Gabriel album back in the day. don't go telling me now that I should have just bought one of those Canadian Atco LPs "off the rack." I don't even wanna THINK about the confusion in trying to buy the "recorded in the States" Stones titles as US pressings and the "recorded in England" Stones titles as UK pressings. it makes my head hurt. not to mention, there's just NO WAY that I could accept the German presing of "Heroes" as the 'official' one, just BECAUSE "Helden" was bilingual. any more than I want to buy (or would accept as official) the English-language versions of the Kraftwerk albums.
A) I said USUALLY. Not always. I said RULE OF THUMB, meaning it's USUALLY the case not written in stone, or vinyl B) Where the ..... did I say the German "Heroes" was "the official" issue? I didn't. YOU did. Don't put words in my mouth C) I've compared the UK and German "Heroes." The German one sounds better... D) So basically, you've totally distorted what I wrote, put words in my mouth and then ripped yourself apart since I didn't say any of those things, but if it made you feel better, I'm with the program. E) In my experience "country of origin" of the artist and/or recording does pan out to be best. F) for instance: Hendrix "Electric Ladyland" first Reprise press is what Jimi and Eddie Kramer wanted sonically and visually. The Track presssing with the ladies of the evening offended him greatly and the sound, though very exciting is not what he wanted. G) Pick the artist and IN GENERAL country of origin will sound best...Stones? You and I know they recorded in America often (Chicago, Hollywood) but took everything home to mix and master, so of course the UK pressings sound best. H) Many of us got burned in the '80s with Japanese pressings, lured by the quiet vinyl and perfect physical quality of the pressings, heavy weight jackets etc, but with a some exceptions the sound quality doesn't rival original UK or US pressings depending on the country of origin of the artists....
okay, yer right, I shouldn't have used the word "official." but even if the other nine tracks sound better on the German LP, the alteration of the title track invalidates the whole edition. in my point of view, anyway. from this judge's position, any change in content automaticlaly disqualifies the entry. your mileage may vary.
Well I'll play devils advocate and throw this one in the ring. I think the best sounding 'Heroes' tracks on vinyl appear here
Sons of the Silent Age Whatever...any of these sound better than any CD! Which is why a 3 LP set: Bowie in Berlin, with Heroes, the Lodger and Low, cut from original analog masters should be some reissue label's next challenge....
I have an original US RCA AFL1-2522 pressing, near mint. Unfortunately I have nothing to compare it to. Sounds great to me...
Great thread ...I have four Lows (Uk 1st Uk green us 1st us black) two us 1st Heroes STERLINGs and a us promo Lodger. I would love to find Uk and Ger pressings of all of these as well as Iggy 's The Idiot. Going off topic a bit, I love the Ger RCA Cd of Low ... great bass ... New Career in a New Town is just a blast ... ive not heard the Ger Heroes but I'm happy with my Japan RCA (but 1st note of Beauty and the Beast is cut off). I love the idea of a redone set of the three ...
I well remember the RCA brown label of Station To Station had tomtom drum distortion on the intro to "TVC 15" and sections of the title track. Are the UK pressings better?
My opinion of the German vs UK is that I prefer the German 'Low', and the UK 'Heroes' and 'Lodger'. The UK 'Low', especially side 1, can sound a little soft/dull; whereas the German EQ adds the right amount of punch and detail. I would say the UK issues of the other 2 titles are closer to the master and sound better to me. Nice to have the German 'Heroes' LP for the title track sung in German but I don't think it's the best sounding overall. I'm comparing the original orange label issues here.
