Any thoughts on this reissue from the 80s I believe? David Bowie - Space Oddity / The Man Who Sold The World: buy LP, Album + LP, Album + Comp at Discogs
Any thoughts about the new remaster of Heroes on vinyl? I know that many people haven’t been too impressed with the box set but is the vinyl worth checking out?
In my seemingly never-ending quest to find a good pressing of Heroes in good condition, I’ve been listening to quite a few copies of Heroes over the past months. This thread has been very useful in giving me useful pointers. I agree with what seems to be a widely held view that the original 1977 UK is very good, and that’s certainly my favourite (I haven’t heard the German 1977). Here’s what I’ve got so far: 1. RCA Victor UK 1977 Orange PL 12522, RCA – AFL1 2522 Matrix / Runout (Side A, etched): PL-12522-A-1 ̶A̶F̶L̶-̶1̶-̶2̶5̶2̶2̶-̶A̶ A4J ⃫A⃫3⃫ STERLING [stamped] 'W' Matrix / Runout (Side B, etched): PL-12522-B-3E A3J W. DAVE'S R.C.A. Not a first pressing (A-5E, B-5E), which I haven’t heard, but my favourite. Rich, deep sound with excellent sound stage and presence. Just wish my copy were quieter…. 2. RCA Victor UK 1980 Black PL 12522 Matrix / Runout (Side A, etched): A4 AAU Matrix / Runout (Side A & B Runout, Etched): PL 12522 Matrix / Runout (Side B, etched): A2 Good and very similar to the UK 1977 above, but rather ‘veiled’ and dull by comparison, as though the stampers were a little worn out when it was pressed. Shame as it’s the quietest of all the copies I have. 3. RCA International UK 1981 Green INTS 5066, RCA International – NL 13857 Matrix / Runout (Side A Runout, Stamped): INTS 5066 A-3TU Matrix / Runout (Side A & B Runout, Etched): BILBO TA1PE Matrix / Runout (Side B Runout, Stamped): INTS 5066 B-5TU Nice with excellent definition and space between the instruments, but lighter than the above, almost to the point of bright. This would be my go-to copy if the original UK 1977 weren’t richer and fuller. The search continues….
The search is over! I’ve finally found my perfect pressing of Heroes in good condition. Along the way I’ve heard myriad UK pressings and masters and burned a large “Heroes”-shaped hole in my wallet. This is what I’ve learned, in descending order of preference: 5. RCA International – NL 83857 UK & Europe 1984 ("Heroes" / Takeoff – Heroes) Terrific definition but lacks oomph and excitement compared to any of the 1977 UK pressings. The build-up of Beauty And The Beast doesn’t move me as much; the scaling of the ice wall in the opening of Joe The Lion sounds more like Wales than Antarctica. Everything’s there, and very clearly there, but just not as there as any of the first pressings. 4. RCA Victor – PL 12522, RCA AFL1 2522 UK 1977 Matrix / Runout (Side A, Etched): PL-12522-A-10 4 'VV' AFL 1 2522 A PL-12522-A-2 A1 48 STERLING X'W' Matrix / Runout (Side B, Etched): PL-12522-B-2 XW A1 51 PL-12522-B-2 AFL 1-2522-B STERLING SC A3-2 Record Manufactured in Italy, Sleeve Printed in England No slouch, with the same characteristics as other 1977 pressings but just that bit less defined. I’d be very happy with it if it weren’t for the next 3 versions…. 3. RCA Victor - PL 12522 UK 1977 Matrix / Runout (Etched Side A): AFL-1-2522-A I-33 PL-12522-A-2 A2 Matrix / Runout (Etched Side B): I-33 PL-12522-B-2 AFL-1-2522-B A5 Matrix / Runout (Stamped/Etched Side A/B): STERLING gc. This is more like it! It has swagger, it has muscle! Just what I want from a copy of Heroes. However, other pressings from 1977 (A-1/ B3-E and A3-E/ B5-E) beat it for excitement. 2. RCA Victor 1977 Orange PL 12522, RCA – AFL1 2522 Matrix / Runout (Side A, etched): PL-12522-A-1 ̶A̶F̶L̶-̶1̶-̶2̶5̶2̶2̶-̶A̶ A4J ⃫A⃫3⃫ STERLING [stamped] 'W' Matrix / Runout (Side B, etched): PL-12522-B-3E A3J W. DAVE'S R.C.A. This is an edition I included in my shoot-out before. Very nice indeed, and this could well be the joint winner with the A3-E/ B5-E UK first pressing if only my copy were quieter so I could compare better. I actually prefer Secret Life of Arabia on this one: the bass is just a touch more ‘muscular’ and defined and makes me nod my head that little bit more. 1. RCA Victor 1977 Orange PL 12522, RCA – AFL1 2522 Other (Price Code): ZZ Matrix / Runout (Side A, Etched): PL-12522-A-3E W A4AW Matrix / Runout (Side B, Etched): PL-12522-B-5E A3AAAC W DAVE's RCA Yes, this is the one everyone raves about, and I can definitely understand why. I’ve finally managed to track down a quiet copy, and mighty fine it sounds too! It’s got definition, it’s got space, it’s got presence and it’s got muscle – the whole package. The checklist for "Heroes" all get a tick: the build-up of Beauty and the Beast is the most dramatic I've heard; the swagger of the song's verses has my head turning from side-to-side; the guitar intro to Joe the Lion sounds like the scaling of an arctic ice wall; the bass part to Secret Life of Arabia is muscular and funky. Well worth the wait. Now, let's see why everyone raves about the original German pressings so much…
I've managed to track down a Near Mint copy of the first German pressing. As people seem to rate it highly, I thought I'd compare it with UK. So, it's: 1. RCA Victor UK 1977 Orange PL 12522, RCA – AFL1 2522 Other (Price Code): ZZ Matrix / Runout (Side A, Etched): PL-12522-A-3E W A4AW Matrix / Runout (Side B, Etched): PL-12522-B-5E A3AAAC W DAVE's RCA 2. RCA Victor Germany 1977 Orange PL 42372 Matrix / Runout (Runout Side 1): PL 42372-A RCA Matrix / Runout (Runout Side 1 (Scratched Out)): PL - 12522-A Matrix / Runout (Runout Side 2): PL 42372-B RCA Matrix / Runout (Runout Side 2 (Scratched Out)): PL - 12522-B Matrix / Runout: PF Both are superb. The German pressing has better definition and clarity overall (similar to the 1981 and 1984 pressings in that respect); the UK stronger and more defined bass. Very much system-dependant as to which you'll prefer IMO. As the bottom end is what I love most about "Heroes", I'd have to go with the UK ultimately, but very happy to have both in my collection!
Heroes update: I’ve been living with these various pressings for a few months now. Here’s an update of my impressions: 1. RCA International UK 1981 Green INTS 5066, RCA International – NL 13857 Matrix / Runout (Side A Runout, Stamped): INTS 5066 A-3TU Matrix / Runout (Side A & B Runout, Etched): BILBO TA1PE Matrix / Runout (Side B Runout, Stamped): INTS 5066 B-5TU Has slipped down the chart in a major way. I know many people like it but to me it seems bright and flyweight thin now. Odd as some of the 1980/81 BILBO pressings of other Bowie albums sound really good, for example Aladdin Sane. 2. RCA Victor Germany 1977 Orange PL 42372 Matrix / Runout (Runout Side 1): PL 42372-A RCA Matrix / Runout (Runout Side 1 (Scratched Out)): PL - 12522-A Matrix / Runout (Runout Side 2): PL 42372-B RCA Matrix / Runout (Runout Side 2 (Scratched Out)): PL - 12522-B Has excellent definition and clarity but too polite and ‘safe’ for me now. Too 'buttoned-up' to let itself go. Of course it’s system and taste-dependant, but IMO “Heroes” needs MUSCLE (listen to that rhythm section for God’s sake!). This pressing tries but just can’t pack the punch. 3. RCA International – NL 83857 UK & Europe 1984 ("Heroes" / Takeoff – Heroes) Meanwhile, the 1984 Black label European pressing has gone up in my estimations. Not perfect by any means, but much fuller than it’s rather thin and limp-wristed 1981 counterpart and well worth your time and $ if you don’t want to fork out for a UK orange. 4. RCA Victor 1977 Orange PL 12522, RCA – AFL1 2522 Matrix / Runout (Side A, etched): PL-12522-A-1 ̶A̶F̶L̶-̶1̶-̶2̶5̶2̶2̶-̶A̶ A4J ⃫A⃫3⃫ STERLING [stamped] 'W' Matrix / Runout (Side B, etched): PL-12522-B-3E A3J W. DAVE'S R.C.A. I’ve managed to score a lovely clean-sounding copy of this and my word, it rocks. I’ve A-B’d it with my favourite, the A-3E/ B-5E (first pressing), and I’d say it’s a dead-heat for first place. Really, really nice pressing.
Given that your first preference is for a US Sterling Cut (on side 1 at least), it'd be interesting if you were able to locate a good condition US original to see how that compares. You've correctly underscored the importance of not making snap judgements - listening over a period of time can provide the most balanced impression.
Thanks for the comparisons. I have the German and the UK orange with A-1/B-5. I also used to own the INTS green label. I completely agree with your assessments. The UK orange is my first choice but my copy has a bit of background noise so I sometimes go for the German. Unfortunately used prices for UK orange are too high to replace with a cleaner copy at the moment but I'll treat myself one of these days.
Goddamnit, I just got a UK first press of the Sterling GC variant and now find out the Daves Cut is better.
I find it depends on the song. For Beauty and the Beast and Joe The Lion, the ‘heavier’ UK pressing is far better (IMO) but from then on I find myself prefering the cleaner, more detailed presentation of the Sterling (as I mostly listen to needledrops of my vinyl, compiling a playlist is easy). ‘Dave’s RCA’ pressings are often darker in tone (hear his 1976 pressing of Aladdin Sane for a good example) - it really depends what rocks your boat.
This I have all of Bowie's 70s on Japanese They sound like they are under a blanket compared to a UK original When I heard my first UK original had to seek them all
You'll love the 'Dave's RCA' first UK pressing of "Heroes" in any case. Either 3E/5E or 3E/6E matricies, I couldn't tell any difference. Difficult to get one in good condition though. It took me quite a few attempts.
Listened to some of my UK Sterling today with my newly installed Nag MP-200 and it does sound a little strained or boxed in you could say. Especially on Heroes.
I have heard a Dutch first press but it was a long time ago and it wasn’t part of the comparison I did here. My memory is that it wasn’t much to write home about but I’d have to listen again to be sure.
Thanks, I have only the dutch first press and I am not so impressed...on the dull side I think, missing some sparkle ...from space oddity to scary monsters, I have all orange label rca UK except for heroes and hunky dory...so I was asking myself if an upgrade on this one is needed...as the dutch presses are generally on par or better comparing to german pressings, perhaps the dutch "heroes" was enough if the german one is so good...
The German “Heroes” was a little limp to these ears (see update post above). Clean - clearly the Sterling mastering - but with no muscle, no ooomph. Overall, it’s really the original U.K. orange (3E/5E or 3E/6E Dave’s RCA) you want for this title. The US Sterling mastering (on many of the myriad 1977 editions of “Heroes” - see above) sounds good on some songs - the title song for instance where some top end is called for - but generally the U.K. orange provides what you’d want from the album.
