Hi-Rez Downloads/Systems - don't understand *

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by mds, Sep 1, 2014.

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  1. Hipper

    Hipper Forum Resident

    Location:
    Herts., England
    mds, don't get put off by the negative comments. Ignore them. Look at the constructive ones, notably Ham Sandwich's post 12. I think that answers your question.

    I have set up a computer audio system just for headphone listening. I have about 600 Red Book CDs, nothing else.

    Before I committed myself to computer audio I experimented with what I've got, namely a Vista laptop. I had to buy JRiver and a USB DAC (TEAC UDH-01). You can rip your CDs on your main PC using a free software, EAC, which can also add the metadata - titles, album cover etc.. I just ripped a few CDs, transferred them to the laptop, set up JRiver and connected it to the DAC, then my headphone amp/headphones. That worked pretty well so I decided to do it properly by buying a quiet PC - no fans, just natural cooling and a better USB DAC (instead you can use an existing DAC but need a USB/SPDIF converter).

    The bonus from all the work of ripping and sorting out a library is you can make playlists of any length and play random songs from your whole collection (quite enjoyable as there are many tracks I no longer bother with on CDs but it's nice to hear them again). The negative is it's a computer and they do misbehave sometimes.

    I'm not interested in Hi-res as only a tiny amount of my music seems available and from reading here and elsewhere, there's still controversy on the quality of some of it, not to mention buying the same material yet again (vinyl, CD, remastered CD, .......). If they sold individual tracks as opposed to whole albums I might reconsider.
     
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  2. therockman

    therockman Senior Member In Memoriam

    I love my PC music server. Right now I only have about 1,500 CDs and a couple of dozen high rez albums downloaded on my hard drive, but it sure is fun making playlists on foobar2000 and playing CD quality music all day long. For me, I just listen to music for spiritual, fun, relaxation, emotional escape and intellectual reasons. To me, a music server fits my mid-fi lifestyle.

    BTW, I am 56 years old and I am definitely an album man, but I still can't overlook the fun of playing a song for the kids or Grandkids or friends or neighbors at the touch of a button.
     
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  3. jhm

    jhm Forum Resident

    Based on your clarification, I wouldn't say you'd need to switch necessarily, especially if you enjoy the CD experience. As others have said on this forum countless times, the mastering matters the most in the end anyway, so if you have well mastered CDs to enjoy, you may be fine the way you are. Just for fun, you may want to "dip your toe" in high res audio just to try it out, especially if you read of a high res download/disc being reviewed as sounding significantly better than a currently available CD or if it's an album that you are particularly fond of and want to try it out as a potential upgrade. Without a good means to play back high res, however, it may not be worth it to you if you can't/don't wish to invest in a new DAC or have a way to line your computer into your main system to take advantage of the resolution.

    Personally, I mostly use high res on my portable player although I do have a way to play back such files on my main system as well. I'm still primarily a physical media guy also, so the bulk of my high resolution files have been when physical high resolution versions of new releases are put out (such as the recent CSN&Y 1974 set, which I chose to buy on blu-ray). For me, this kills multiple birds with one stone. I can play the blu ray on my main system, I can rip the disc and load the high resolution files (in this case 192/24 bit) to my portable player and if necessary, I could dither the files and burn them to a compatible CD for playing in a car or something if needed. This also gives me a physical backup in case anything ever happened to my ripped files.
     
  4. jazz8588

    jazz8588 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sandbach, England
    Assuming the master tape is analogue then higher resolution allows me to get closer to the music.
     
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  5. Jtycho

    Jtycho Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    Why try to convince yourself? Will another format fit your lifestyle? What is it that YOU want our of your music collection?

    For me it's simple: I'm 33 but I've always loved vinyl. I can't listen to music at work, I have a 10 minute commute so I don't bother with it in the car. I rarely have music on in the background. Records match my life. I go in my listening room and put on a record, whether I have time for one side or 20 sides. I sit in the living room with my wife and we put on a record. When we're done listening to music we turn the record player off. Listening is a complete activity to me. I have no need or interest in anything else. If my life was different I'd probably get into Hi-Rez downloads, but it's not.

    SO, what do YOU want?
     
  6. Coricama

    Coricama Classic Rocker

    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    Maybe try listening to some Hi-Res on a good system. If it does nothing for you, then you have nothing to worry about. Ripping your CDs to a lossless format is a convenience and easily better sounding than MP3 on anything better than earbuds. I'm not recommending that you get rid of your CDs, but being able to access your entire library of music from your couch is pretty nice at times. That's my ultimate goal with it.
     
  7. PNeski@aol.com

    [email protected] Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    There are more than a number of reasons to switch to a streamer ect ,One is having your whole collection easily at your fingertips, being able to pick which bunch of cds you want to play and they play like a changer, without having to change a changer
    Being able to hear more music ,because you don't have to spend time flipping records or loading cds,Plus once the cd is loaded ,you can store it away (keeping the jewel case or not, You can add singles to lps ,or remove poor cuts,
    I don't buy expensive downdloads unless they come in sets I buy (like The McCartney Ones )
    While it might take a while to set it up at first,and theres always harddrive failure ,but these are small bothers for what you get in return ,Sure if you only have a few cds ,or prefer Lps don't try it
     
  8. SuperFuzz

    SuperFuzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC USA
    Better sound. Or at least the potential for better sound... some hi-res downloads sounds much better than any CD version, some don't... but if you don't think it's worth your time or a small amount of money to find out, it's really OK. :) No need to convince others
     
  9. Shak Cohen

    Shak Cohen Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That is debatable. IME working on transfers of analogue 2-track master tapes of my band (both 1/4" and 1/2") that were in good shape, and hadn't deteriorated, 16/44.1 copies to DAT/CD-R were in most cases perfectly adequate, and later hi-res transfers added nothing useful. Some of my 1/4" tapes sounded better in 24-bit, again 44.1khz was the best frequency.

    There are countless threads were members have expressed their preferences for 1980s/early '90s CDs where 16/44.1 was basically the maximum available resolution for transfer, from 1983 Black Triangle editions of Abbey Rd, to CBS Stones, to Diament Led Zep to DCC discs by our host..

    So IMO redbook CD and SACD are perfectly adequate for high quality digital audio.

    I should add (and this may upset some), that as nice as it can sound, I never 'double taked' on a digital copy of one of my masters. That only came close to happening with analogue dubs.
     
  10. mds

    mds Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    PA
    I want to thank everyone for their opinions and guidance. I have a lot to consider.

    In summary this is what I have assimilated so far; both CDs and Hi-Rez files can sound fantastic and also pretty bad all depending on the source and mastering. One of the formats does not jump up and beat the other in terms of sonic quality, they both are pretty equal. Where going digital works best is the fun of ripping files and creating great playlists or having very convenient access to an entire library from your easy chair. On the other hand vinyl and CDs gives you the experience of getting up looking through a library, dropping the selected disk into the player and going back with the case or cover and enjoying the music as one explores the insert or cover. In addition you have the fun of going to a virtual store, talking with clerks, and browsing through the bins.

    At this point I need to figure out how easy it would be to bring digital to my listening room, which does not have a PC in the room nor an Ethernet outlet to plug into. Here is where I am a little confused. The choice is wifi or bluetooth which are the two choices if I do not have an Ethernet connection. Another option but is very limiting is using a zip drive. The best option seems to be bring an Ethernet connection to the room. Have I missed something? I assume once this is sorted out I need to borrow or buy a DAC and give it a shot. Not knowing for sure but I assume some DACs have bluetooth or Ethernet cards for wifi in them? Depending on how difficult it is to set up the connection will determine if I want to explore in this direction.

    My real concern and reason for posting was to find out if the higher resolution file was inherently better sounding than a redbook CD. I am always in search of a way to improve the sound be it room treatment, power conditioning, equipment or the medium in which I am playing from. At this point I believe both are equal in sound based on most people's responses. The question I need to answer is if the convenience of sitting and browsing my library from my sofa is worth the effort in time and money to set up the system so it works in my listening environment.

    Again thanks to everyone who had a constructive thought or experience to share.
     
  11. GreenDrazi

    GreenDrazi Truth is beauty

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I strongly recommend that you setup a computer directly to a DAC/stereo system to determine if this interests you first before worrying about networking.

    If all things are equal, there is little difference in sound quality between CD and computer based setup.

    Additionally, a direct connection (networked or digital connection) is a far more reliable approach than wi-fi for hi-rez files.
     
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  12. stereoptic

    stereoptic Anaglyphic GORT Staff

    Location:
    NY
    Wireless trumps blutooth in terms of bandwidth, so I wouldn't even consider blutooth if your aim is high fidelity. There are several options if you select wireless. You can even use a wireless bridge which in essence is just about equal to having an ethernet connection, but it connects through your wifi.
    The key is setting up your music server. I prefer to have the music server in another room (I have a Macmini with an external drive) and connect to it to my stereo with a Squeezebox. Unfortunately for you the Squeezebox is not being manufactured any more, so if you are intending on streaming high resolution 96/24 or 96/192 then you will need to seek out other options. Perhaps others can chime in here with some other options. I'm not sure how much you want to spend. Take a look at SamS thread about using a raspberry pi. You indicated that you are technically oriented, so that may be an excellent inexpensive high quality option.
    Or you can go whole hog with the Marantz NA-11S1 :drool:
    The big issue in my mind is starting your library. We have quite a few threads here devoted to that topic as well. It is best to lay out a plan of action and forge ahead!
     
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  13. Hipper

    Hipper Forum Resident

    Location:
    Herts., England
    I suppose then that is a similar question to comparing Red Book CDs and SACDs, DVD-As etc.. The first thing is to look at availability of your music in these formats. Then it may justify investment.

    If you decide to go down the computer route come back here and ask advice, particularly, as stereoptic says, 'the big issue in my mind is starting your library'. Ripping techniques, file format, metadata and organising your library are important prerequisites (love that word - reminds me of Monty Python!) to save you wasting time later redoing everything. This site is also useful:

    http://www.computeraudiophile.com/
     
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  14. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Independent Head

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    The idea that having to bestir yourself every hour or so, to confront the agonizing process of ejecting and then playing the next CD, is actually a significant problem, continues to boggle my fogey mind. Same thing for the idea that wasting untold, endless hours ripping an entire large CD collection is a logical tradeoff in order to gain the dubious ecstacy of having “your whole collection easily at your fingertips.”
     
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  15. Doug Sclar

    Doug Sclar Forum Legend

    Location:
    The OC
    Well this has not been my experience at all. Hi-res when done right sounds far better than CD to me.

    I guess this isn't the place to go over all of my reasons for that, but be aware that the differences do exist, and can be major. For some reason this is a very controversial topic and I'm often attacked for presenting my opinion on it. Obviously many can't hear the distinctions for one reason or another, but please don't convince yourself that they don't exist. They most definitely do.

    For some reason, some of the people who can't hear the difference are on a mission to prove that one doesn't exist. They'll come up with charts, graphs and incomplete theories in an attempt to try to prove their points, but listening tests often tell another story.

    That said, it's entirely possible for a CD to sound better than a hi-res file, but if that is the case, something was wrong with the hi-res mastering. Using the same exact source and mastering, there is no comparison in many cases.
     
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  16. Erik Tracy

    Erik Tracy Meet me at the Green Dragon for an ale

    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    I still contend that service reliability should be a weighted factor in any 'trade comparison' of audio system selection.

    The "internet" is not 100% reliable. Yet again, last night, I experienced a system 'freeze' on my TWC cable connection for TV/audio which prompted a system reboot of my DVR that took 15 minutes.

    Sunday it was internet connectivity that was interrupted for over 1 hr.

    Streaming would rely 100% on 100% availability/reliability of countless 'points' in the delivery chain.

    At least have local digital storage for playback, unless you are highly tolerant of interruptions of service - I'm not.
     
  17. nbakid2000

    nbakid2000 On Indie's Cutting Edge

    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    I'm not sure you understand how downloads work. Downloads stay on your hard drive and your internet service has absolutely nothing to do with whether they work or not.

    Streaming does rely on internet service, but downloads don't and I'm unsure where you would get the idea they do.

    Have you ever used a download or downloaded a program onto your computer before?
     
  18. Olias of Sunhill

    Olias of Sunhill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Jim Creek, CO, USA
    I don't know anyone that's gone to 100% internet streaming. I've burned my entire CD library, but I play it from hard drives (and have multiple redundant backups).
     
  19. Erik Tracy

    Erik Tracy Meet me at the Green Dragon for an ale

    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    I understand the difference.

    There are proponents even now espousing going full streaming and even ditching local digital storage via downloads.
     
  20. nbakid2000

    nbakid2000 On Indie's Cutting Edge

    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    Who? Who here is saying that? And why even bring up downloads as not working due to internet outages in this situation then?
     
  21. vanye

    vanye Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Have you thought about ethernet over your electric wall plugs (D-LAN)? Works great for me.
     
  22. Erik Tracy

    Erik Tracy Meet me at the Green Dragon for an ale

    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    {never mind}

    Carry on.
     
  23. nbakid2000

    nbakid2000 On Indie's Cutting Edge

    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    @OP downloads work fine no matter what happens to your internet service. Don't worry.
     
  24. PNeski@aol.com

    [email protected] Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    that takes a couple of days for most collections ,its hardly a trade off for ease of use ,everytime you have to get up open a jewel case and load it is a lot more work than doing it one time (or two) I do both and also play Lps
     
  25. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Independent Head

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    I guess you could rip a few dozen CDs a day if you had nothing better to do, and I suppose it wouldn't be unendurably boring self-torture to rip your entire CD collection if it's relatively modest. But again, why bother? It's the exact same "everytime you have to get up open a jewel case and load it" either way, except my way breaks up the tedium into little tiny widely spaced morsels.

    I'm sort of half-kidding, because I recognize there are some cool advantages to being able to stream your collection via servers and wifi and and the cloud and whatnot. But I'm never going to rip most of the 700 or so CDs I own because they're incredibly easy to play IN MY CD PLAYER and no force on earth (except for maybe getting some fool to do it for me) is going to change my mind.
     
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