High End Audio Design Layout Doesn't Lend Itself to High End Performance

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by jamo spingal, Oct 12, 2018.

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  1. jamo spingal

    jamo spingal Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    Firstly, I worked in several analog/mixed signal semiconductor companies including Burr-Brown Corporation for many years, so do understand the relationships between circuit card layout and performance, not just in the audio spectrum. Especially when it comes to parasitics and the importance of passive components in relation to ICs and power devices. For example capacitor placements for noise decoupling or otherwise you almost always want to get as close to the IC PCB pads as physically possible. Having the PCB and components look as regular and neat as possible was never ever a consideration.

    What I've noticed after regularly reading high end audio magazines over the past year is how the internal look of amplifiers, DACs etc in units costing thousands, sometimes tens of thousands are very neat, regular and symmetrical where possible. It seems the design aesthetic is to place passive components neatly in rows and blocks, to the potential detriment in ultimate performance that these designs are meant to represent. The internal look of these units (in magazines) is obviously a factor in their sales. What I can't see is the underside of the PCBs, but for sure I am thinking that top side layout is compromised.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
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  2. audiolab1

    audiolab1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Agree 100%. Unfortunately it's mainly audiophools perpetuating the misinformation published by many in the audiophile press. I have always felt that if a reviewer is going to make a comment about how a component has "a beautifully laid out circuit board", they should at least have a basic understanding of electronics. And yes, nothing gives me a bigger chuckle than seeing massive boutique "paper-in-oil, hand rolled my Tibetan monks" capacitors used as supply decoupling or output filtering of DACs or other high speed devices. Surely the people designing these items know that those parts are not suitable in terms of high frequency rejection and parasitic inductance. Then again, a proper ceramic SMT cap does not look nearly as impressive. ;)
     
  3. JBryan

    JBryan Forum Resident

    Location:
    St Louis
    I guess I'm showing my age and while there's certainly a place for circuit boards in some applications (eg. audio sources with complex circuitry), I see most uses in audio as a compromise - usually an easier and less expensive build. Stout transformers, loads of capacitance, quality parts, proper shielding and short wiring with competent, solid solder joints is what I initially look for in 'audiophile' equipment. That being said, I have several pieces of gear with boards. Aside from CD and DVD players, I have a Marchand xover that uses plug-in boards to set the cut-off points. Worse, it has tube sockets embedded in boards (thankfully they are well supported) and in my view, that's a severe compromise as changing tubes can flex the board and either degrade the traces or even crack the board itself. Thats a catastrophic failure just waiting to happen... at least to these tired, old eyes.
     
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  4. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    Form should always follow function. If you get away from that, you are missing the point.
     
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  5. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Audiophiles have strange notions. You only have to look at some of the discrete ladder DAC designs to see absurdity taken to an ideal.

    I'm more impressed when digital conversion happens within 4 cm of the audio jacks.

    [​IMG]
    - In the middle from right to left: Burr-Brown PCM1794 DAC, I/V op amps, buffer/filter op amps and passives, analog volume (miniscule IC), RCA outputs.
    - At the bottom from left to right: RCA inputs, buffers, Burr-Brown PCM4220 ADC, digital bus transceiver.
    - Upper left: headphone amp w separate DAC.
    - Upper right: linear voltage regulators.

    (Creative X-Fi Titanium HD sound card)
     
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  6. Fregly

    Fregly Well-Known Member

    Location:
    London
    Is the "Pro" stuff better designed in general? Say the companies more in the studio music making end, like Benchmark or Lavry.
     
  7. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Carl Thompson did the board layout for John Curl and Bob Crump for the CTC BlowTorch preamp. Carl has done board layouts for Parasound for the John Curl series of amps and pre-amps. Expertise like that is not easy to obtain.
     
  8. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I guess you have never looked inside a Lamm amp. I have the 2.1 SETs and the low level driver tube sockets are mounted right on the circuit board. I have not heard of any issues, and the Lamm reputation is pretty serious.
     
  9. jfeldt

    jfeldt Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF, CA, USA
    As a former mixed signals nerd, I love this thread! Yes, I think there is still a lot of opportunity for improvement in the gear out there :)
     
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