Higher end tube phono stages...are they worth it?

There is a review of the BAT VK-P6 tube phono stage (~ $3500) by Michael Fremer that says it sounds like "velvet fog". No thanks!

Also there is one made by Musical Fidelity - the "NuVista Vinyl" that uses metal tubes called "Nuvstors" which look like large transistors and I had never heard of them before. Apparently they were the last "new technology" tube type developed.
Many audiophiles covet them for some reason. I would certainly be interested in hearing that phono stage.
Nuvistor - Wikipedia
Musical Fidelity - Nu-Vista Vinyl Phono Preamplifier

 

Assuming the Tung Sols are the tubes it ships with? They did sound really good but I had to try it with the Mullards. Gonna switch back this weekend.

 

Some of the best money you can invest in your system. Well worth it.

 

The issue with the EAR834P is that TdP used an excellent P.D. tube circuit and then made some innovative modifications to it. So I think copycats are hiding behind the PD part of the circuit even if copying some or all of TdP's innovations. I have heard some high end tube phono stages that are above your price range but those are tweaky as well as expensive.

Frankly I had the Herron phone stage in the main system and changed some years ago to the EAR but the one with the volume control running directly to the power amp. I also have Stage 1 mods to it from a UK engineer source. The Herron is excellent and neutral but while pleasing for many types of music isn't going to give you old style tube 3-D. I get your problem with the EAR price but you might look for a lightly used copy with the volume control. But your power amp would need to have enough gain to mate with the EAR.

 

To me a decent phono is worth it. I've had a BAT VK-P10SE for nearly 19 years now. It recently went in for the only service its ever had which was an opportune time to evaluate others I had access to from my local dealer and 1 lent to me by a friend which were

1) McIntosh MP100
2) Musical Fidelity Nuvista Vinyl
3) BAT VK-6SE
4) Zesto Tessera
All had their pros and cons I will likely order a BAT VK-P12SE
In the end my ear...your ear is all that matters. I treat reviews as entertaining reading only..they can't possibly know what MY system sounds like and while in their system it may sound "foggy"...that's their system. While they may eloquently detail their 5000.00 interconnects...connected to their 60000.00 pre-amp...so what???_again great entertaining reading and YouTube videos...
My system...my ear...my tastes

 

What did you think of that Nuvista Vinyl?

 

I liked it. To me it sounded like more like a SS phono very detailed I have a Clearaudio Stradivari MOMC and i was able to set it just right. If it lacked anything it wasn't as warm...lush as what I'm used to with the BAT . But my system is all tube. I may give it a second listen before I decide. I would take it over the 66se and the MP1000

 

An this is the tortured existence of a tube-ophile who is having a crisis of faith. Sure a person can take the end result of "I like the sound, so its good" and I get why a person does that. Heck I was that way for a lot of years. But eventually the existential question of what did the designer use in his circuit, and isn't that the best option caught up with me.

I also found out over the years that I really did not like Mullard tubes, not fond of Amperex either, didn't care for Telefunken, and not wild about GE either. I found as a whole, I liked various RCA, Siemmens, Tungsram, and Sylvania. But by then I was a SET kind of guy, and found that I liked Sophia Meshplates. Eventually I kept trimming tubes out of my system, and was happier with each reduction. These days I use a Musical Fidelity NuVista M3, so I still have tubes in the pre-amp section. But it can only use Nuvistor tubes, so I am at peace about what needs to be installed.

Yet I understand why people tube roll, and like what they like. I guess I am also struggling with what old stock tubes sell for these days. In my heyday I could buy 12AU7 RCA cleartops for $12 each. I could buy a quad of Siemmens EL34 for $99. I bought Sylvanis chrome dome 6SN7 for $20 each. The prices of these tubes now makes me dig my heels in. Actually, back in the day Mike Sanders of Quicksilver used to burn in and select Chinese KT88, which I had in my Silver 90 mono-blocks. They were a nice tube, and I find that higher grade Chinese tubes are quite nice sounding. Heretical I know, but it doesn't bother me because I don't need any tubes at the moment.

But who knows, one day I may come back again. I almost bought some Transcendent Audio mono-blocks last year, and I probably should have done that. So you never know when you are back in the fold...so I never say never.

 

A good phono pre is worth aquiring. Be it valves or Class A discrete transistor.
Unfortunately it is a scammers business, lots of money for the most simple device, years back every valve or transistor amplifier had one build in. (later solid state used pre's with crappy opamps, avoid that)
There is nothing special about a tiny amp with RIAA compensation, a few components, worth nothing.

 

I'm sure the Pro-Ject Phono Box is using the tubes as a "buffer" on a cathode follower configuration, all the rest is solid state. I don't think changing the factory installed tubes to something better like a pair of NOS RCA or Mullard will make much of a difference.
I'm sure if you change the 12AX7 on it for 12AU7 tubes,which only have a 25% gain of a 12AX7 you won't notice any change on output level, proving that the tubes are not use to amplify the signal coming from the cart,the only control current and impedance output.

 

I like my DS even with stock tubes, but have some NOS Sylvania 7025's in store for the future.

 

If you have electronic skills, one can upgrade components with a lower cost good design and at least equal higher cost phono amps. Frankly, tuning to what the individual likes may not meet another persons requirements though. I believe I can modify a $200 Yaqin MS-23 to equal a factory stock $1000+ phono stage with the right parts & tubes.

Mistakes are made with amplifiers- not using the best coupling caps & tubes is the largest issue IMO.

 

I using av Hovland HP-100 with the MC transformer. It has a very nice phonostage.

 

The Hovland Company has been defunct for many years so that HP100 is an orphan product AFAIK. It was an excellent phonostage.

 

Went from an iFi to AN R-Zero and it was well worth it. Wasn't able to compare it any equivalents as such but it gave me exactly what I was after in a smoother top end and more palpable presence. Better at noise-suppression too than any previous (SS, albeit cheaper) stages too.

 

My first stand-alone phono stage was the Dynavector P-75. I thought it sounded pretty fine. Then I took a big step up to the Coincident Statement Phono Preamp. What I discovered was the Dynavector sounded mechanical, edgy, grainy, flat, and unnatural compared to the Coincident. So, the higher quality phono stage made a substantial difference in the sound quality. Is it worth the 7x price difference? It is for me.

 

Same experience going from the P75 to the Lehmann Decade!

 

I can absolutely tell you that swapping out the factory installed tubes for a pair of new issue Mullards created a wonderful sound. I threw some clear tops in as well and things got real sterile. So I cannot comment on the design nor how it all works, but I can say this thing responds extremely well to tube rolling.

 

I have the Nuvista and it's very transparent with none of the tubiness some people may complain about. The tubes have been around for 50 + years and have been used by Fisher in their FM sections since the mid 60s.

It has lots of detail and an ability to separate and define images in the background as well as foreground which was somewhat surprising to me and hear sounds that I don't think I ever noticed before.

However the biggest ++++ is its ability to control several arms or TTs and access gain, capacitance and loading easily from the front of the unit. I have numerous carts and I can change the aforementioned without moving the pre around and struggling with dip switches to change parameters. Another plus is its balanced output.

Perhaps not the greatest sounding pre but one of the easiest to live with and it sounds great to my ears.

I should note that the MF is inputted into an all tube Audio Research Reference 3.

 

I’ve got an Icon Audio PS2 in my main system, I’m using a Lounge Copla as my SUT (MC cartridge on the TT); the sound is fabulous.

 

From Fremers follow up
“First off, to clarify: I am a big Mel Tormé fan. If I describe a product as producing a "velvet fog" (Mel's nickname), it's meant as a compliment! “
I have a VK-P5 and I can assure you there is nothing “foggy” about it.

 

I knew about that being Mel Tormé's nickname.

Fremer is even more clueless than I thought if it never occurred to him that using a word that is essentially an antonym to clarity would be interpreted as a negative.

 

I love Mel! He is one of my favs! And the Mel-Tones are really cool to. But Some Like It Hot.

 

Contrary to a post above, changing the cathode follower tube does make a major change in sonic quality. In fact, a number of people using the Hagerman Cornet report that changing the CF tube makes a bigger difference than changing the signal gain tubes.

 

That seems like way to general of a statement to me. I have a very fine tube phono stage that doesn't require a SUT.