History Behind the Elton John Dick James Demos

I'm trying to unravel a little bit of the mystery behind the fairly substantial stack of Elton John demos from before he became "Elton John - Superstar Recording Artist".

These demos were all written by Elton and Bernie, but have never been released by them.

Does anyone know where the "masters" for these demos are? Physically, I mean - the actual tapes.

I'm not familiar with the Dick James end of things - does the company have a vault where these may still exist?

The songs themselves are published and ALL owned by Universal Publishing (not all are listed as such with BMI [Elton's share] or ASCAP [Bernie's share] on THEIR lists, but a double-check with the powers that be at Uni this morning confirmed that they own them as part of a big lump purchase with the "important songs" (everything officially released that came after).

Of course, the publishing company has no idea where the masters are - or the history behind them. Understandably, Uni didn't show much interest in the recordings either, as those demos have not, and probably will never, made or make any money from them.

But they're open to putting out a publishing comp of them if I DO find them...

By the way, some of tracks include:

And the Clock Goes 'Round
When the First Tear Shows
Turn to Me
I Can't Go On Living Without You
The Tide Will Turn for Rebecca
Sitting Doing Nothing
Thank You for Your Loving
Tartan Coloured Lady
71-75 New Oxford Street
When I Was Tealby Abbey
Regimental Sgt. Zippo
You'll Be Sorry to See Me Go

Any info/thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Jeff

 

If they're telling you that they don't know where they are that probably just means they're not interested in looking. They're probably in storage somewhere. I know that some publishing companies (peer for instance) have transfered tapes and acetates to DAT to save on storage space. They key is that you have to find the storage location. Get Rob Caiger on the case. He'll find them.

 

Who is Rob Caiger? I'm happy to talk to him -

And you're right - they have no interest in them at all - an no interest in looking.

Believe me - I've been down this road before - if I didn't personally have the Randy Newman acetates (publishing owned by Warner-Chappell), they themselves would not know what the non-covered songs sounded like - and nor did/do they care. Understandably - they won't make any real money from them.

And yes - it's my friend at the music and film department at Uni Publishing. They looked up my list and verified that they own them, but wouldn't really spend any time on research unless an offer was put it to license one. And even then, they have a general quote for "cheap Elton".

Jeff

 

Jeff, was just thinking. I'll ask John Carter if he knew anyone who worked for DJM. If you can find another artist who made tapes for the company and has already researched where these things got stored that may shorten your search.

Rob Caiger is the guy who has tracked down Move/ELO master tapes. He's dedicated his life (it seems) to finding tapes. Joking aside, you need someone on the ground in the UK. That's the only way to get them.

Is there any guarantee that EJ/BT won't block an attempted to compile those recordings?

 

If you (or anyone) could get these demos compiled and issued, that would be fantastic. I have long wondered why there has seemingly been so little interest in this. I mean, this is a MAJOR artist and there is just TONS of this stuff--some of very good quality--and none of it has ever been issued. The new 2CD deluxe issues of the proper albums are nice, but I'd actually be more excited by a legit issue of as many of the Dick James demos as could be located.

Is there absolutely NO continuity between the original publisher staff and anything that came later? No one who might know where the bodies are buried, so to speak?

 

The issue comes down to: how many times did those holdings change hands? I thought I read that DJM has changed hands a couple of times at least. Finding a person with a common connection can be very hard - especially if they didn't care about those EJ demos. DJM had much more saleable material throughout the years.

 

Supergroovy - thank you for asking Carter!

And if you have contact info on Caiger, I'd really like to talk to him. I realize that the "masters" will be somewhere in the UK... if anywhere (I've spoken to Greg Penny, but he doesn't know where they are - just the "regular" album stuff).

Jeff

 

Releasing the masters commercially, probably. Compiling them for publishing purposes? Absolutely not.

Jeff

 

Is this the same Dick James of Beatles fame? If so we may as well track those Lennon/McCartney demo tapes down as well

 

These demos are out there somewhere, as back in the early 90's they circulated on bootleg recordings in very good quality.

 

Same guy.

 

But Rob Caiger is an expert on Birmingham artists, specifically Electric Light Orchestra, The Move, Wizzard, Roy Wood, Idle Race, Mike Sheridan etc.

He is not neccessarily knowledgeable about the music of Elton John. Furthermore, Caiger has had to reduce his compiling activities(though he still does liner notes,memorabilia research etc.) due to health problems.

 

Anybody try Stephen James(Dick's son) or anybody else involved in that period?

Or even Elton himself????

 

Furthermore, you might want to look into whether Dick James has any estate that could give answers. Dick James was a Russian immigrant whose real name was Leon Vapnick.

 

Fortunately, those are Sony/ATV songs - and I work with them officially - so believe me, I'm waaay ahead of you on that! I'm just trying to get the Sony/ATV-owned songs (mono promo masters - 1/2 of "Ram", couple of Lennon singles - other published rarities) tracked down first.

But for several reasons, I'd rather not drag The Beatles into this - they've been through enough. Plus, just don't want to talk about that stuff on a forum right now.

Jeff

 

Doesn't (didn't?) Elton have a fair collection of Lennon-McCartney demos,acquired when Reg Dwight was working for Dick James Music??(Allegedly,of course.... )

 

If he did, he probably sold them off when he auctioned off his entire HUGE record collection in the early '90s. I STILL would like to know who bought that collection and where it went. It was supposedly filled with incredible stuff...

 

I was joking about Caiger.

 

Jeff,
Aside from "And the Clock Goes Round" I've heard all of these, and have them on boots. "The Tide Will Turn for Rebecca" however was released officially, although briefly in the early 80's. I have it on a cassette called "Seasons-The Early Love Songs, Vol 1". (I never heard or saw a Vol 2) It was on theCambrasound label and was a British release.

 

I doubt he would be coooperative considering there's still bad feelings from when Elton sued Dick James about royalties. He blames Elton for his Fathers death stemming from stress from the litigation.

 

It depends. If the project is framed in a way that sheds a positive light on Dick, then his son may cooperate. A legacy is pretty important to a family.

 

You see, While Elton & Bernie were signed to a contract that was typical for the time, it only seemed unfair by the standards of two decades later. Dick James' side of the story was that he invested heavily in Elton's career, and gave Elton unlimited access to a recording studio for nearly two years with unlimited recording budgets, not just to record piano/vocal demos or band demos, but also fully arranged polished recordings with horn & string arrangements. The idea was to help Elton develope his studio craftsmanship. James would then decide when Elton had produced something good enough to offer to the public. Without this unique, fortunate opportunity to develope his craft, he wouldn't have become as musically significant as he later became.

No wonder Dick James took it quite personally when Elton sued him. James collapsed and died from a heart attack while playing a game of cards with friends, but who knows whether his anguish over being sued by Elton was a factor? Maybe Yes,Maybe No.

 

Not much additional information but the demos were released on the Yellow Dog boot label back in the late 80's, along with the first run of Beatles, Dylan and Who titles. The quality is very good, probably a second-generation cassette dub from reel. One thing to remember is that songs were generally just quick run-throughs, probably recorded straight onto a stereo reel deck. It's been a long time since I heard them, but I don't recall much, if any, overdubbing. It's possible the original tapes were stolen and that's how they made it out in the first place. Ron

 

There was some from what I heard - double tracked Elton vocals at least...

Jeff

 

What's floating around on bootlegs is a combination of demos and (attempts at) finished recordings. You've got a big job ahead of you to find them but it could be interesting trying.