I neglected to write that after we left the archives yesterday and thinking about where to do to eat, I remembered a very nice meal at The Banc, the restaurant on the corner of 3rd and E 30th next to the studio site, so we went there. Last time I ate there it was warm enough to sit outside. Although there were well-bundled people sitting outside when we got there, we opted for inside and had a lovely meal. We actually followed a bride-dressed woman and a couple of her bridesmaids in, and there was a private party in the back room which made me think about our gatherings, so I talked to the manager about what's involved in having something there. Long story short, there is a little area that seats 20 people that can be separated somewhat from the throng and a screen and projector could be set up. For ala cart service with everyone ordering food, there is no charge on top of what people order. And a Monday night would be best. So since I'm going to be working the Sony Archives the next two Mondays, I'm going to be having dinner at the Banc to see what it's like on Mondays. And it just occurred to me that if there is anyone here who wants to join me no-host that you'd be welcome. I'd love to meet you and hear what you're up to, since you already know what I'm up to. In the absences of any specific plan, I'll probably get there around 6 after walking around a bit to clear my head. I'll be the one with the dazed expression, looking like a tourist. Oh, and the condos where the studio stood have a sidewalk shed and are getting ready to do some exterior refurbishment. The owner seems to be related to the owner who put up the condo building. That was interesting to see. Otherwise, the neighborhood looks about the same. The place next to the condos still has the picture in the lobby of their building next to the church with steeples.
I never knew until today that the "orchestral" tracks for Sinatra's "Watertown" album, were recorded at 30th Street in 1969! Recording on Watertownology
That's pretty interesting. Frank Laico always talked about how he did the tracks for some later Sinatra sessions in NYC, but that then the tapes went to Hollywood and who knows in the final product what got used from where. This site seems to imply that the orchestral tracks were used as is and only the vocals were changed. Interesting. Also, I don't see "New York New York" on this album, which was the only song Frank remembered that he did with Sinatra at that time. He obviously wasn't fully remembering, though, or maybe I'm not. I haven't watched the video for a while where he talks about working with Sinatra. Thanks for posting it. You posted a video elsewhere that was not done in 30th St. but since part of this thread is determining what is and what isn't 30th St amongst Columbia studios, we have to see what isn't in order to know what is. So feel free to post it here, it's a cool video and shows Chappy at work, which is why (among other reasons) I think it's Hollywood.
New York, New York was about 10 years later, on Trilogy. Trilogy: Past Present Future - Wikipedia The Present was recorded at 30th Street with Frank, although some tracks may have been re-recorded in Hollywood. I will leave those details to a Sinatra expert.
You are most welcome Dan and as lukpac has kindly added, that "New York, New York" was 10 years later and not a part of the "Watertown" sessions. As for the video that you mentioned, it seems that although Chappy had a hand in the early days of setting up the 30th St studios, that both he and Percy Faith headed to Hollywood fairly quickly in their years together. With that said, it seems that this interesting video is from Columbia's Hollywood studios, but is still worthy of viewing, just because it is so Percy Faith and there isn't that much footage of him working in the studio.
I'm not sure if Chapman helped setup 30th Street; he could have, but nothing is coming to mind. On the other hand, after Frank turned down the gig to move to LA, Chapman took it to setup and manage the Hollywood studio. More from the Ed Prentiss show, not in the above video for some reason:
Somewhere someone quoted or referenced Chappy as saying pretty much what Frank said, that when CBS was thinking of buying 30th St. he was one of the people if not the instrumental one who went and looked at it and approved of its sound for recording purposes. Maybe I read it in a book? The more I've thought about it the more I doubt that the story is completely true. Certainly Mitch was not the focal person like Frank said.
This is one variation from Howard Scott, no mention of Chapman: I seem to recall seeing another variation, but I don't *think* Chapman was mentioned. And yes, Mitch Miller wasn't with Columbia until over a year after the studio opened.
Interesting - and that Richard Davis, of Eric Dolphy's band (Live at the Five Spot) played bass. Should check this album out [edit: Watertown].
I'm 3000 miles from my books and so won't be able to look. I'm guessing it was either "The Label" by Gary Marmorstein or "Kind of Blue" by Ashley Kahn. Those seem the most likely. I remember it because it was so similar to what Frank told us, as is Howard's version, although Howard's group went looking for and found it while the others just went to give their OK's. Howard's seems quite believable, since that level of management would be the ones presumably in charge of such things. I accept it as gospel. Thanks for posting that quote.
Gentlemen, if you scroll down to the part about Harold Chapman on the following link, you will read all about Harold and his early days at Columbia 30th St. PERCY FAITH PAGES
After reading all of that stuff about Harold above, I have to believe that he was THE person who really gave the 30th St. Studio it's "sound"!?!
Here's a variation of that story in Thelonious Monk: The Life and Times of an American Original: "Columbia's 30th Street Studio was a pretty extraordinary place. Located just east of Third Avenue, the former Greek Orthodox Church was purchased by Columbia in 1949 and turned into one of the finest recording studios in the city. When senior engineer Harold Chapman discovered the abandoned church, he insisted that Columbia executives leave it untouched. He was afraid that any renovations, including painting or sanding, would ruin the delicate acoustics. With 10,000 square feet of floor space and enormous ceilings, it was big enough to accommodate a full orchestra, but through the strategic use for drapes, dividers, and a little reverb, Columbia's veteran engineers could also create a more intimate sound environment." There's an end note for that, but unfortunately it isn't available in Google Books. A similar account to what Frank had said, including errors (100' x 100', the room had to be "untouched"), although here it's Chapman giving the order, not Mitch Miller. And of course the studio was purchased before 1949, being open in late 1948.
Yes! That was where I saw it! Chappy was Percy's favorite engineer, according to that site, which I have spent some time at. So I didn't see the story in the books. Good.
I clearly remember what Laico said at a Sinatra session at 30th Street "You wouldn't be hurting my feelings if you did the mixing someplace else." I think he said this to someone working for Sinatra because if Sinatra had been in the studio I would remember that. Laico did not like to remixing and I don't think he was ever forced to do any. I don't think he had the patience for it.
New York, New York: "The Present, featuring contemporary numbers, including his signature "Them from New York, New York," arranged by Don Costa, saw the singer's return to New York and the Columbia 30th Street studio, in August. (Some songs for this portion would be re-recorded in September and December, in Los Angeles.) [...] Appropriately, "New York, New York" was recorded in the Big Apple, at the August 1979 sessions for The Present held at Columbia's 30th Street Studio. A month later, though, it was redone in Los Angeles, as Sinatra felt he hadn't quite nailed it down the first time. "The old man didn't like way it came off in New York," says Vinnie Falcone. "He had been growing with the song, and between the time we recorded it New York and the time we recorded it in Hollywood, it had grown that much more, and he said, 'I want to do it over again.' Don Costa said, "The hell with it - leave it the way it is.' I guess they talked, and Don said, 'Let Vinnie do it.' So for the Hollywood session [the released version], I conducted it, and Pete Jolly played piano."" Sessions with Sinatra
Thanks for adding that! Too bad that the sound isn't as good on that clip, as the one that I posted. "Summer Place" is still one of the greatest sounding recordings by Percy. I'm also very partial to the album "Swing Low In Hi Fi" and I often play Johnny Mathis' "Merry Christmas" album, no matter what time of year, it's THAT good, in my opinion. Here is "It's Me, Oh Lord" from "Swing Low In Hi Fi", for those that have never heard that album ... It's Me Oh Lord
I'm new to Steve Hoffman's site, and probably in way over my head, but I found this 30th Street discussion a while back and have found it a rich, fascinating experience to read about the magnificent studio and the talent that gave us so many recordings from Columbia that were - to me - of higher quality and content than any other record label, by mere orders of magnitude! The Ed Prentiss show on my website (percyfaithpages.org) was found on - where else - eBay back in the 1980's, by the late Alan Bunting of Scotland. There is another part to the film, Theme from A SUMMER PLACE is on the net in various places, and Alan Bunting tried, years ago, to contact the person who posted that, thinking perhaps there is another reel of 16mm film with another segment of the show. He garnered no response to several inquiries. Alan's web site was limited to text only, so he had the 16mm film telecine converted to a videotape of the VHS era, in PAL format. I took it to a place that did film work and format conversions, and had it converted to VHS, and that's what you see. It was in those days of VHS so all the video on my web site looks pretty bad. The other videos on the site were converted from film to VHS by Percy Faith who no doubt would have liked better quality, he was a film buff, lots of still photo albums, even had that 900 pound Akai black-and-white "portable" (not really) camera and tape setup; I never saw any footage that came from that machine, although I often wonder if some of the film on my site was run through one of those telecine machines and captured on the Akai THEN to VHS. It was a great day when Alan sent this tape of the Prentiss show, specifically for me to put on my site. Perhaps 4 years ago Alan had a frame-by-frame conversion done of the film, and it does yield a bit more detail (facial recognition especially). In his research looking for the rest of the film, Alan contacted ABC and they knew nothing at all about the show or it's host. From what the late Marilyn Leonard told me Chappie was the ONLY engineer Percy Faith worked with during his 25 years with Columbia Records. She attended many of his recording sessions and said he often left the orchestra playing during rehearsals conductor-less in order to dash into the control booth to hear the recorded sound. Actually Percy did record ONE album in New York after the relentless good weather of California; EXCEPT for a session in March 1969 in NYC and engineering credits are listed as Frank Laico and John Guerriere (except one track "borrowed" from his May, 1965 Broadway Bouquet session included in this album). Percy's grandson Rick can be seen on the back of this NY album "The Academy Award Winners featuring WINDMILLS OF YOUR MIND" (title longer than album!). Percy Faith wanted to work with old friends, and did. If you go to this film http://percyfaithpages.org/faith_memories.wmv which is from the 8mm tape Marilyn and I made in 1991, scroll about 2/3 through it (get past the star-driving and house tour) and you'll see fuzzy images of us talking while going through Percy's "music" photo albums. The result is low resolution "pictures captured on a Handicam." There's even a picture from the April 1959 BOUQUET album sessions that might be of interest here, and perhaps the 30th street studio can be recognized in other photos. BOUQUET, for sure, is super low resolution but you can see those overhead lights, it's a faraway shot, the orchestra is seated in a circle (I think). Sadly when Marilyn passed away her children looked for the original 8mm tape of this visit and I was going to try a better job of capturing the 8mm film instead of the VHS dub Marilyn did for me back then, but the 8mm film was never found, and it was Sony's first 8mm tape format and was playable only on first-gen handicams. I don't know the details, but I believe it was analog, no digital processing. It's corny but scroll past all that if you wish and enjoy the look back with the photos.
Bill, thanks for the info and for your very interesting Percy Faith web site! Hope that you don't mind that we linked a few of your items, as they have been so very informative? VERY nice that you and your late friend Alan took the time to save that Ed Prentiss Show, as it's priceless. Since you are now on board, if there is anything "30 St." that you can share with Dan and all of us, we would all be appreciative. It's really too bad that most of these key people from Columbia have passed, as I'm sure that we could be getting so much more "background" information on the 30th St. Studios, that is just not found on the web.
Hi Bill, Glad you found us, thanks for this wonderfully informative post. I enjoyed looking at your website when it was first linked here some months or longer ago. My guess about Marilyn's comment that Chappie was Percy's ONLY engineer was that it referred to their time in California. Percy did hundreds of sessions in NYC in the 50's. Since Fred Plaut took pictures at many of them, my guess has been that Fred was engineering a considerable number of those; certainly he didn't go to Hollywood but Chappie did, and it's great that Percy trusted him so much. It was cool to see Chappie working in the video you posted. I don't know how to find engineer credits for those early sessions. They are not in the appointment books or the AFM reports; I'm not familiar enough yet with the rest of the documentation in the archives to know what else there is. I'm going tomorrow and that will be one of the questions I ask. Thanks again, and it's nice to virtually meet you. Best wishes, Dan
