History of CBS Records 30th Street Studio NYC (many pictures)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DMortensen, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. mdr30

    mdr30 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gothenburg, Sweden
    Don't know if this is what you're looking for, but Marcos Valle's Samba '68 was recorded at 30th Street studios and contains his hit Crickets Sing for Anamaria. If you search on Getty Images you'll find over 30 photos from the sessions, including on Marcos Valle, his wife, arranger Eumir Deodato, musicians, producer Bob Morgan and engineers Val Valentin and Frank Laico.
     
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  2. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Dan, first thing ..., but do you need a "voiceover" for your video presentation? If you do then please PM me, as I do voiceovers and I have my own small studio right here in the house. All you would have to do is send me a script of what you want said and I could cut it dry (no effects, outside of the slight EQ that I usually apply to my voiceovers), then I would send it to you via email as an attachment file and you could edit it in yourself, wherever you want it placed in your video.

    Second, here is a hit pop song that was recorded at 30th St. ...

     
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  3. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Of course, Sinatra's infamous "New York, New York" was recorded at 30th St.

     
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  4. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Paul McCartney recorded his vocals (only), for "Monkberry Moon Delight", in the small Studio D at 30th St. in 1971

    Here is the completed song ...

     
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  5. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Here are the "vocals only" of Paul McCartney's "Monkberry Moon Delight", that were recorded in Studio D ...

     
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  6. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Dan, many artists and groups used the 30th St. studios for "something", but there are no definitive notes on just "what" was recorded there? For instance, the following albums claim that something was recorded at Columbia 30th St. ...

    George Benson (Livin' Inside Your Love)
    Pink Floyd (The Wall)
    Jim Croce (The Face's I've Been)

    Then, there are many other albums that say that they were mixed at 30th St., but not recorded there, so it's a bit of a crap shoot, to figure all of that stuff out.
     
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  7. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Rumor has it that the following Sly & The Family Stone song "Sing A Simple Song", which was the b-side to their huge hit "Everyday People",was recorded at 30 St. ...

     
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  8. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Are we certain the master comes from 30th Street?
     
  9. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Sinatra was actually not in 30th St for that/those sessions, according to Frank Laico IIRC. That was done at 49 E. 52nd, IIRC. I've not found Sinatra's name in the information I have, although there are lots of sessions for "Warner" or "Reprise" or "Kapp" or whatever record company, with no artist indications. So he could have been there. I have not seen pictures of him in 30th, though, either, and you'd think somebody would have taken at least one.

    Also according to Frank, the tapes were sent to California and there's no way to know what was used where, although Frank also talked about Sinatra's pronunciation of "New York" being different in New York than in California. He pointed it out when we were listening to the song and I'm afraid I could not hear a difference, but he was clear on when it was one and when it was the other.

    Maybe those who have studied his recording career in depth can chime in?

    Typing that made me think of Chuck Granata's great book "Sessions with Sinatra", and a quick look there shows the assertion that those sessions for "Trilogy: The Past" were in 30th St in August 1980.

    Looking through the information I have does not show any Warner or Reprise sessions in August, 1980, and certainly no Sinatra sessions.

    However, looking closer at the info, the pages for August 26-28 are missing (Tuesday-Thursday), so my guess is they were then and somebody stole or misplaced the pages. Edit: The rest of the month is intact.

    So Chris, I believe you are right.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
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  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

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  11. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Hi Chris,

    That is a very generous offer, but this one will be music only, it will be played as people are walking in.

    I will keep your offer in mind, though, because I think a video or variation on a video is the best way to ultimately try to convey this mountain of information.

    Thank you!

    And thanks for all the clips of songs in 30th St.

    Please feel free to keep them coming, I need all the help I can get on this part. Edit: This goes for everybody....
     
  12. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Not sure about the others, but the Pink Floyd sessions (and I've seen them on the schedule, like 4 sessions over a couple weeks?) were only for the string parts, according to what I've read.
     
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  13. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Glad to help in any way that I can Dan!
     
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  14. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    The released version of "New York, New York" was recorded at Western Recorders, with Lee Herschberg (and possibly Ed Greene - I don't remember off-hand) engineering. The earlier take which Frank Laico recorded is unreleased.

    There were many later era Sinatra/Columbia sessions at 30th Street...
     
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  15. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    And by that you mean the 1950's sessions that ended in 1952?

    IIRC the only pictures of him in the Plaut collection are in Liederkranz.

    Thanks for clarifying the New York New York release recording source.
     
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  16. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Yes, Dan. Listen to (for instance) the SING AND DANCE album. 30th Street all over it.

     
  17. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    We are having an interesting discussion on the Fo30St mailing list that expanded from my request to identify first names of people who I only had last names for. They knew a huge number of them, and those names will be added to the walk-in video for my presentation in October.

    Jim Reeves shared some stories and OK'd me sharing with you:

    "I watched the Don Puluse video. Wonderful. He is so cool on camera. I love his knowledgeable perspective and his presence.


    Two things. FYI, The vault guy! I guess Don got his name wrong from the beginning and called him that forever. “Willy”. He was actually “Wally”! Wally Gordon. You really didn’t see him that often, but I used to love to keep him around when he’d come up from the vault with a mound of tape boxes. He was a colorful character. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a movie there.

    http://reevesaudio.com/reevesimagesnds/33-Wally-CBSVault-e.jpg


    And 2. I heard about union engineers being sent to other studio for their “presence”. But that never happened to me. If I were sent to A&R or The Record Plant, I was at the console, engineering always. Actually it was the employees of A&R and The Record Plant who were not allowed (technically speaking) to “touch” the console in their own house because it became a union house. And yes, originally, once you were “signed” to Columbia you had to record in their studios. No independent studios were considered. And that later broke down in early ‘70’s.

    I was with Hallee at a live FOH union gig at Alice Tully Hall with, I think, Santana, I remember Rick Marotta was on drums. Roy had to sit next to the union “House” sound guy who sat directly at the console with his arms folded over his chest, blocking the console from Roy. Roy would have to lean into him and ask him to change a level in the mix, one request at a time.


    The huge CBS 49 E 52 Main AC breaker panel, as I remember, was to the right of the elevators as you came out of it, but can’t remember if it was on 2nd, 4th, or 6th floor. Last guy out Friday night powered down all the building’s studio gear and rooms. First guy in Monday AM powered it on again for the week. I had closed it down a couple of times which is how I learned of the powering scheme which was 24 5 M-F.


    The three CBS categories of IBEW 1212 Engineers was 1. Tape Op who lived in his own tape room with his own patch bay to and from the control room patchbay and an independent monitor system selectable to each individual track for signal integrity and calibrated the decks, took punch-in cues from the console engineer, recorded and played back as directed by the console engineer and managed the reel to reel tapes, 2. Console engineer, handled the control room patch bay, channel bussing, gains and eq and effects and fine tuned mic placement and set earphone levels, and 3. the set up assistant who would get all the booms, music stands and lamps , ash trays, amps, keyboards, headphones, AC for mic power supplies, mics and gobos in place and tidy’d up and then Console engineer would go in and tweak the mic’s and gobo’s final positions.


    For me, the interesting difference with most of the staff of CBS, engineers came from people who had never engineered as audio engineers previously. They were musicians, or radio or ham operators, or electronics people or non-music related at all.


    In my case, I was also trained in piano and vocal harmony and had designed and built my own recording console and multi-deck sound-on-sound recording studio by the age of 18 and had already worked as engineer for Skitch Henderson recording the Tonight Show orchestra personnel, and Benny Goodman, Johnny Ray, Sarah Vaughan etc. and also engineered at Talentmasters, Century and A-1 Sound recording R&B and Soul music as well as nightclub and residential sound systems before being hired by CBS. Also, the salary was not at all equal. When Roy Freidman interview me he was impressed enough to offer me top union scale plus 10% night time differential which came to over $800/week. I had come to CBS originally as an independent producer/engineer who had had an signed act on the EPIC label with a chart single. In speaking with Glen Kolotkin over a cigar on his patio in Florida a few years ago, I found out that he was paid about $300/week and it was his belief that everyone else got the same. I had no idea till then. I wondered why I was always the guy renting the limo.


    I loved the point Don made about Hallee’s artists and their, enviable to me, methodical, carefully paced approach to making memorable material. Mine couldn’t wait to get out the door.

    Jim"

    Great, huh? More to come after I'm done with this swap meet tomorrow.
     
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  18. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Here are the Chambers Brothers, possibly in a recording studio, from Al Q's Flickr

    [​IMG]

    I realized recently that since Fred Plaut didn't do pop sessions by and large, there are almost no photos of that genre in the pictures I have and I wish there were.
     
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  19. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    If that's a session picture for The Chambers Brothers, Fred Catero may have been the engineer...he recorded (at least) "Time Has Come Today", and I believe the rest of THE TIME HAS COME album. Not sure if he did the Columbia material to follow.
     
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  20. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Don Puluse did a bunch of Chambers Bros. sessions, maybe Tim Geelan did some, too. I don't have that material organized yet, so it's time consuming to go through....
     
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  21. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Re: Sinatra's Trilogy recordings at 30th Street
    Sorry not to have chimed in sooner, as I've been away on vacation. Of course, Martin is correct that the RELEASED version of "Theme from NY, NY" was recorded in Hollywood (September 19, 1979), although the master has the New York number (mx. XNY2103) assigned to the UNreleased version from 30th Street a month earlier (August 20, 1979). So, portions of the orchestration may have been borrowed from the New York session tapes.

    In fact, today marks the 38th annversary of the start of three days of recording by Sinatra at 30th Street for Trilogy: The Present. All of the other tracks besides "NY, NY" were completed there. This is the entry in Nancy Sinatra's book chronology, Frank Sinatra: An Americam Legend :

    AUGUST 2022, 1979: At Columbia studios in New York City for three recording sessions for the Trilogy collection, Record 2 - The Present. The songs recorded [include]: "You and Me," "Summer Me, Winter Me," "Love Me Tender," "Just the Way You Are," and a duet with opera singer Eileen Farrell, "For the Good Times." From the liner notes, beautifully written by David McClintick: "In a cavernous CBS studio on East 30th Street, Sinatra is going about the risky business of recording songs that other performers, with styles completely different from his, have made famous. Framed by sound partitions, he stands behind a microphone and music stand facing Don Costa, who is perched on a podium surrounded by 50 musicians. 'Ready, Frank?' asks Sonny Burke from behind a cloud of cigarette smoke in the control room. 'I've been ready since I was 12.'"​

    ( The complete McClintick liner notes may be found on my website: Odyssey To Trilogy )

    I don't have my copy of Chuck Granata's book at hand, but Trilogy: The PAST was recorded on the west coast. ("Theme from NY, NY" was part of Trilogy: The PRESENT.) All recordings for the triple LP were completed in 1979. Sinatra did NOT record at all in 1980.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  22. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Crikey. The book does say 1979 and The Present. Two wrong things out of two, that's a good percentage. :oops:

    Looking in 1979, there is still no notation indicating Sinatra. That session must have been Bristol Productions? Laico was the engineer and they were the right days in the right place.

    Sheesh.
     
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  23. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    That's the one.

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Progress report: I've completed the visual part of the walk in video for the NYC AES presentation about 30th St, and have now started gathering audio clips.

    If you have suggestions (it's easy to find stuff on YouTube and use that converter to get brief audio clips) for what songs were recorded in 30th St, now is the time to post them. I'm already using the ones that are recently in the thread. TIA.

    At this count, there's pretty close to 1000 names in the 6 1/2 or so minutes before the visual repeats. Many of them are duplicates because the same people were both artists and producers, or producers and engineers.

    The crazy thing is how many names are NOT part of it. There were a lot of people who went through that studio, as we've seen. And I don't doubt that there are lots of mistakes. Spelling was fluid in the Columbia documentation, and I suffer from FFF syndrome (fat ******* fingers).

    There is also a video that my friend Bob Smith and I made when our friend Frank Laico received the AES Honorary Member award, shortly after his stroke when it was ambiguous how much longer he would live (it turned out to be about two years). Bob selected the audio of tracks that Frank worked on and I put together some video showing both the album covers and pictures of Frank and the artists at work, sometimes together. I think I can never post it online because of too much copyright stuff, but I am planning to show it as the walkout at the presentation. There were two parts of it that needed correcting, one from using Keynote (like Powerpoint) to put it together which made precision timing very very difficult and the other because I was in a rush and didn't know what Toots Thielemans looked like when he worked with Bill Evans, and so got a picture of Bill with Jim Hall. Now that I know Final Cut ProX, I finally fixed both last night. It's better now.

    So please post songs recorded at 30th St in the pop world particularly. I'm up to about a dozen now, and could use about 30.

    (Walter H, I'm going to use an excerpt from Margaret Hillis' version of Stravinsky's Les Noces because I was curious what it sounded like since Fred took a TON of pictures of that session in 1954, so don't include it in.)
     
  25. Walter H

    Walter H Santa's Helper

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    I'm back to work on this project after some health issues, so we should have results this week. Les Noces is an excellent choice anyway, and with pictures even more so!
     
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