History of "Pretzel Logic" LP Pressings?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by thegage, Dec 14, 2003.

  1. thegage

    thegage Well-Known Member

    I've recently picked up two pressings of "Pretzel Logic" and am trying to determine which is the earlier one.

    Both are gatefold.

    One is has the black ABC label and the LP is in the front half of the gatefold.

    The other has purple-orange-yellow ABC target label with "abc" in a music note at the top. Most interesting is tha fact that in the dead wax on both sides there is a miniature British flag. I have never seen this before, and as far as I can tell this is a domestic pressing. Oh, and the record is in the back half of the gatefold. Go figure.

    John K
  2. Randy W

    Randy W Active Member

    I'm not sure of the answer to your question. My early copy of Pretzel Logic is a black label LP with boxed abc logo that slides into the front cover of the gatefold - and yet my early Steely Dan albums on either side of this have the yellow rimmed target abc label design (including a white label promo of the later Royal Scam).
  3. Drawer L

    Drawer L New Member

    Location:
    Long Island
    The black label is the original.ABC switched to the 'target' label in late '74.The original target had the round logo followed by 'records'.The 'musicnote' label was used about a year before ABC folded,as original AJA's (spring(??)'77) have the round logo & Greatest Hits (Xmas '78) have the musicnote.
  4. James Glennon

    James Glennon Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Also note

    the album was originally mastered by allen zaenz, the dead wax should have the letters Az .
    JG
  5. thegage

    thegage Well-Known Member

    Thanks. My black-label copy does indeed have "AZ" in the dead wax.

    John K.
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Mastering Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Allen mastered the LP from the original two-track mixes.
  7. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Is Allen Zentz retired Steve? I know Brian Gardner (who used to work at Allen Zentz) is (or at least was up until recently) working at Bernie Grundman Mastering.
  8. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Mastering Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Kevin Gray knows, he used to work for him. I'll ask him.
  9. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Thanks Steve. I knew Kevin worked for Artisan, but I didn't realize he worked there too.
  10. XMIAudioTech

    XMIAudioTech New Member

    Location:
    Petaluma, CA


    Apparently (and most unfortunately) Allen passed away almost a year ago (5/14/03) :(

    Obituary from the Albuquerque Journal, May, 20, 2003:

    ZENTZ- Allen Roy Zentz died May 14, 2003 of complications after
    surgery. Mr. Zentz was born on December 17, 1940, the first and
    only child of Clarence and Alice nee Clabots (both deceased). He is
    survived by cousins, Warren Zentz (Virginia), Arlene Zito (Gerald),
    Georgette Rockouski (Robert), Beverly Waligora (David), Brian
    Zentz, Jeanette Wallace (Michael), Katherine Dunn (Dennis),
    Joseph Einsele (Valerie), Karen Einsele, Lois Einsele, Michael
    Einsele (Linda) Janice Herman, Leslie Herman (Judy), Richard
    Herman (Nancy) and Robert Herman. Allen was raised in suburban
    Chicago and moved to Southern California at an early age to try his
    luck in the recording industry by establishing "Allen Zentz
    Recording" in 1974. He attained great prominence and earned many
    platinum and gold records. He retired to Albuquerque in 1992
    seeking relief from the fast pace of California. Visitation for Allen
    will be held on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 from 2:00 p.m. until 5:00
    p.m. at Salazar & Sons Mortuary, 400 Third St. SW.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Allen was one of my 'heroes' or 'influences' (if an audio guy can have one) in the audio engineering field, It was a shock to have found the bad news a few months ago while Googling... I was similarly surprised to not find any mention of Allen's passing in any of the trade magazine websites: only the obituary listed above and a note on a geneaology website are the only internet notices.

    RIP Allen, you will be missed. :( :( :( :( :(

    -Aaron
  11. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Mastering Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Indeed he will. He made some great sounding records.
  12. Paul K

    Paul K Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I saw a copy manufactured by Longines Symphonette in New Jersey. What is with this press? BTW, did Mr. Zentz do other Steely Dan masterings also?
  13. Paul K

    Paul K Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Bump!! and please refer to my previous post.
  14. James Glennon

    James Glennon Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland

    The answer is yes,
    The Royal Scam (ABCD 931 A 1A)
    (ABCD 931 B 1B)

    JG
  15. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Thanks for the info on Allen Zentz, Aaron. Sorry to hear this.
  16. JohnT

    JohnT Well-Known Member

    Location:
    PA
    wow, the things I learn around here!

    I've got the orange label Pretzel Logic and it has the 'AZ' on the side B deadwax.

    Post by James:
    I don't see any reference to AZ on my copy, how can you tell?
  17. James Glennon

    James Glennon Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Check The Dead Wax


    The letters Az (handwritten) should be clearly visible on the dead wax.
    JG
  18. LesPaul666

    LesPaul666 Active Member

    Location:
    New Jersey
    It' s also interesting to note that side 2 of the "Pretzel Logic" LP(at least my allen zentz mastered first pressing black label on ABC) is sped up a bit, compared to all the CD releases...It could be just "Parker's Band" I'm not sure...I'm gonna go throw it on...; )
  19. -Ben

    -Ben Active Member

    Location:
    Washington DC Area
    I just want to confirm what James Glennon said.

    I found Az on my Pretzel Logic and Royal Scam LPs.
  20. telliott

    telliott Well-Known Member

    Which black ABC label was first: The square logo or the white "ramp" logo with ABC on blocks?

    Tim
  21. XMIAudioTech

    XMIAudioTech New Member

    Location:
    Petaluma, CA
    According to Both Sides Now, the square logo was first, the 'blocks' logo was only used for a few months (on both ABC and Dunhill) before reverting back to the original square logo.

    -Aaron

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