HMV Canada to close all 102 stores April 30 (Sunrise to take over approx 70 HMV stores)*

I liked Lodger and Lodger remix remastering. The live are live so by nature I do not get bothered by their sound quality unles they they sound like bootlegs. The ones included in the box sound very good. And that was all on CD.

Low and Heroes remasters are the main reason why I won’t go for the boxset. What about the vinyl version SQ of those 2?

 

Yeah, I agree with everything that you have said. They seem to be basing their business model on doing what HMV did but with a cheaper cost base and more vinyl. Given that HMV's sales were declining, that's a risky move if their numbers are off. It's going to be a tough balancing act being a niche store with a nationwide reach. Other markets can manage it, so there's no reason why a music store can't survive. Despite the welcome resurgence of vinyl, they are operating in a declining market. DVD sales will likely continue to decline and I doubt they will sell many of the board games that they have.

No-one really knows whats going to happen with vinyl sales going forward - will people tire of it, or will it remain healthy and stable or continue to grow? Either way, I think that their core target audience needs to be the hardcore, regular buyer of physical music, supplemented by casual buyers. That's probably stating the obvious but brings us back to the price/service argument. If the service isn't good enough and prices remain so high, how are they going to attract the hardcore who are used to shopping elsewhere and will they get enough casual buyers if prices aren't competitive? I'm no expert but I think they are in danger of missing both of these markets.

It's still relatively early days and it is going to take time for them to get used to such a big expansion. My concern is that it's a pretty unforgiving retail market out there. If they don't get it right quickly, they could repeat HMV's failures.

 

I think one of HMVs biggest failures was taking on too much debt, and it was probably the single biggest reason for it's closure. If you can't service that debt you're not going to last. I think had HMV not carried such a large debt load they'd probably still be around today. How long, no idea of course.

But I think Sunrise has a chance here. I expect there will be some correction at some point with some stores closing. I was told, and you need to take this with a grain of salt, that sales are up in the majority of former HMV locations by a significant amount.

 

It would also depend on the mall traffic these days as more and more malls are in a decline throughout Canada, save for the more popular ones (i.e., Rideau Centre in Ottawa, Eaton Centre in Toronto, or the West Edmonton Mall). But then again, the turnover rate of shops are much higher than ever before.

 

That's good news if it is indeed true. I do hope that they can be successful as it's good to see a chain promoting vinyl so strongly. I agree that they have a chance - I just think they need some tweaks here and there, price being the major one.

 

Yeah their pricing has always been out of whack. When I used to visit their former incarnation on Yonge St I never bought anything. Their club member price was a bit better but still quite high.

The problem for them is trying to compete with the likes of Amazon who often have little to mark up on music items and sometimes sell below cost. I think they also get rebates from labels but I can't be sure on that.

 

Yeah, I said in one of my previous posts that I don't expect them to compete with Amazon on price, with the exception of promotions/sales. For me, this is where the service comes in. If the price is okay (a few extra dollars for an LP or within $20 or so for an expensive boxset), then I'm okay with paying a little more to get something straightaway for convenience and if I like the store. I think that a better return policy would also be helpful in attracting people from Amazon and/or other stores.

 

I find that even in the large West Edmonton Mall location they don't have a lot of back catalog in the cd section, which is important to me.

 

That is a very interesting point.

Surely not a store that completists will visit.

A respectable music store should always stock some cornerstone items from many music genres. Example #1, I am often discouraged seeing how jazz for instance, is often only represented by Miles, Coltrane and a few stars of the moment. Whoever knows the Blue Note labels can testify the 60’s catalog is very rich in terms of jazz music. You can spend a lifetime listening to this very creative era.

Example #2, I am rebuying most of the Jethro Tull remixed boxsets and have to order them from some internet resellers cause they are not stocked in the stores. If you want to establish a loyal customer base than you also need to get items out of the mainstream and get specialized items.

This is my 40 experience from buying in small and larger shops located in Toronto, New-York, Montreal, Ottawa, Hong-Kong, Tokyo, Chicago and Europe. I am not and was not really into the ‘buy 2 or 3 for $25 CD’ scheme as my cornerstone collection was already built.

 

I visited the Sunrise at Sherway Gardens and I have to say, while the Sunrise experience has been disappointing overall for me, the SG Sunrise was pretty decent. They seem to be better at stocking new releases. I know it's early for Christmas but at least they had the Ultimate Christmas by Sinatra, Gwen Stefani's new Christmas album and Blake Shelton's updated edition of Cheers It's Christmas whereas the other stores didn't have them. They also seem to be carrying some imports like the recent reissues by Spandau Ballet and Wet Wet Wet. I managed to buy T'Pau's The Virgin Anthology. On Amazon it's hovered around $90 but it was $70 at Sunrise.

One thing I did notice is that they are mimicking HMV in other ways. They are now doing the "If you spend more than X amount of dollars you can get this CD or DVD for X amount".

I do wish they would open a downtown location. I miss the Yonge Street locations. They generally had great stock. The Yonge/Dundas location always had good DVDs and Blu-rays.

 

I was in the Metrotown location here on the west coast last weekend, my first experience in a Sunrise in i don't know how long.
They have quite a few bins of vinyl, enough to lure a record fan to over to flip through what's there. There weren't many
surprises, other than they had some of the Rhino "summer of love" reissues i thought were only for independents, but
maybe they qualify simply because they have physical stores. Didn't buy anything, probably won't be back.
Other local shops, for example Red Cat records completely crush the experience of shopping at a corporate mall store.

 

I sure agree with you there. These types of stores are one of my favorite pastimes, and I was certainly curious about Sunrise's post-HMV renaissance, but I haven't been in one of the stores yet, not even once. The lack of a convenient location (I live near Yonge) is the reason. It's unfortunate that there are two locations in deep Etobicoke, but the only other Toronto location is in Fairview. I recognize that the new Sunrise is basically a mall chain and don't expect them to open a high street location any time soon, but there are lots of major malls they aren't in (Eaton Centre, Yorkdale, Scarborough Town Centre, Bayview Village, to say nothing of smaller ones like the Bay-Bloor complex). The Shepherd Centre Sunrise is much missed...though that mall is clearly dying.

Yorkdale and STC in particular are so huge I'm surprised they've made no effort to move in there.

 

I went to the Sheppard location a few times, vinyl is over priced compared to other Toronto indie outlets and the CD selection isn't that great although prices are reasonable and usually lower than Amaon.ca. I'd give them **/5, lots of room for improvement. Long term prognosis, not a company I would put my $$ into, I have my doubts on their ability to last long term.

 

When it comes to vinyl Kops is a goldmine in comparision to Sunrise.

 

The issue at hand is that they are still overpriced on much of their stock. I was pleasantly surprised that they had a reissue I was looking for but a little traumatized with their price.

In short, if they think 37.99 is a good price for a single vinyl album I don't hold much hope for them. I don't think they understand that indie record stores are a much more enjoyable shopping experience.

 

Probably couldn't afford Yorkdale which is probably the issue with any downtown mall type location as well. I don't see them being downtown at all, especially since it's so well served with record stores.

I wouldn't mind visiting one but location is an issue. They have one store in Square One. I'd visit as I have family in Mississauga but I never have time and I remember that HMV location. It was quite small and I imagine it's still the same size unless they moved within the mall.

 

I like the people who run the Barrie, Ontario location and will buy new releases there even if I have to pay 20/25% more. Amazon leaves me cold now.

 

I've visited the Calgary location a few times, and I can't believe how expensive the vinyl is there.
Record Land, a local store, keeps their prices on par or maybe a dollar or two above Amazon prices. The records at Sunrise are anywhere from 5-10$ more expensive. In a sense, this makes me happy, because it means people will likely keep supporting the few local stores hanging in there.

 

Spotted this at Sunrise in St Laurent Mall this morning. When I pointed it out to the clerk she just laughed and said “oh yeah there’s a few things in the wrong place”, but didn’t make any effort to move it!!! I got the impression she had absolutley no idea who Gary Numan was anyway!

 

Anyone noticed that Sunrise are carrying some Barnes & Noble exclusive edition lp’s? eg. The Beck album

Seems strange, is there a tie up with both stores?

 

Yes, i saw that in Burnaby. It's strange. I looked for the other recent exclusives like the James Taylor titles, but they didn't have those.
I ended up buying one of the Rhino "Rocktober" titles, T.Rex Electric Warrior, but then realized the copies they had were badly seam split,
i'm still waiting for a replacement. i should have asked the manager about the B&N connection.

 

I've seen them pop up in Canadian indie stores. I think a Buble reissue was one. Assumed it was distributor overflow they were quietly trying to sell through.

 

So has anyone checked out Now & Then yet? Is it a chain? If so, has anyone been to their other locations?

I stopped at the Oshawa Centre store last weekend (only my 2nd visit since they opened)... and while their DVD/Blu-ray selection still didn't have much of a selection, I did manage to find four or five CDs from my wishlist. It's pretty rare for me to even find one album that I want at these types of places, let alone five... so hopefully that's a good sign.

 

There is a Now And Then in Kingston. I talked to the manager (maybe owner) and she said it is an offshoot of the Sam the Record Man in Belleville, but they don’t have the rights to open new stores under that name.

Kingston previously had a beta version of the new Sunrise. Two classic Sunrises had closed over the years. Under the new owners a new Sunrise opened and closed a few months later, all before the HMV deal. It was a terrible store.

Now and Again is much better. Not cheap, but not outrageous, and they actually stock back catalogue items. I went in to check out the new Bruce Cockburn album. First, they had it in stock. Good! Second, price was ok... about $2 more than Amazon. Third, buying any CD meant I could add one of any “two for” deals and get the lower price. I found a 2002 reissue of a back catalogue Cockburn album at $10 or two for $15. That meant I got it for $7.50. I wouldn’t expect most stores to have a title like that in this day and age let alone at such a great price. Sold!

Elsewhere I saw the first Alvvays album in vinyl for $17.99. Great deal.

 

I noticed the same. I picked up the new Sheryl Crow album this past summer at a B&N in NYC. It was labeled a B&N exclusive. A month later at my local Sunrise, I saw they also had a copy. I pointed that out to the manager and she said she wasn't aware of the B&N exclusive.