Hoffman vs. Nichols versions of Steely Dan *Katy Lied*: Please help!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by KeithH, Apr 24, 2003.

  1. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Thanks to a lot of folks here, I have learned how to distinguish the Hoffman and Nichols versions of Steely Dan Aja (CD). For Aja, there are many ways to distinguish the Hoffman version relative to the Nichols version (both pressed in Japan). Unfortunately, I am not clear on how to distinguish the Hoffman versus Nichols versions of Katy Lied. All I know is that the Hoffman version of Katy Lied has "MCAD 37043 S1E:1" as the matrix code (stamped in the inner ring of the CD). Is this the only identifying mark?

    Below is a list of differences between the Hoffman and Nichols versions of Aja. Are such differences noted for Katy Lied too?

    * Hoffman version has "CSR COMPACT DISC" repeating in the plastic inner ring. Nichols version does not.

    * For Hoffman version, each song starts at 0:00. For Nichols version, each song starts at 0:01.

    * Original smooth-edge jewel case for Hoffman version has "Patent pending" embossed on the back. The smooth-edge jewel case for the Nichols version does not.

    I am looking for ways other than sound to distinguish the Hoffman and Nichols versions of Katy Lied. For one thing, sound quality is subjective. Secondly, some have said that the Hoffman and Nichols discs sound quite similar. So, I am looking for obvious ways to distinguish the discs (things to look for on the discs, songs starting at 0:00 versus 0:01, etc.).

    On a final note, can someone explain where the static in "Bad Sneakers" occurs? I read once that the static is absent on the Hoffman version but is audible on the Nichols version. Is this true?

    Thanks in advance for your help.
  2. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    On a related note, are there any matrix codes besides "MCAD 37043 S1E:1" that are ascribed to the Hoffman version of Katy Lied? Thanks!
  3. vinylrec

    vinylrec Vinyl Fan

    Location:
    Delaware, Ohio
    Is it a Hoffman????

    Keith,
    I just sent you this data, but I'll post it here:

    Using EAC I've analyzed two Katy Lied discs:

    MCAD-37043-U2E1 (made in Japan by JVC)
    MCAD 37043 S1EI (Hoffman verson/made in Japan by JVC)

    Both versions timed out the same and all of the EAC data was identical.
    I'm not sure what to think????

    Here's the data:

    Steely Dan / Katy Lied (MCAD-37043-U2E1)

    EAC extraction logfile from 24. April 2003, 8:07 for CD


    Used drive : TDK CDRW5200B Adapter: 1 ID: 0
    Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache
    Combined read/write offset correction : 0
    Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

    Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
    44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo

    Other options :
    Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
    Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
    Installed external ASPI interface


    Track 1
    Filename Black Friday.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC AAEDE64F
    Copy OK

    Track 2
    Filename Bad Sneakers.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 7242CA15
    Copy OK

    Track 3
    Filename Rose Darling.wav

    Peak level 94.1 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 8E083081
    Copy OK

    Track 4
    Filename Daddy Don't Live (in that New York City Anymore).wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Track quality 99.9 %
    Test CRC C6BBB8A7
    Copy OK

    Track 5
    Filename Doctor Wu.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 8636206F
    Copy OK

    Track 6
    Filename Everyone's Gone to the Movies.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC E61C450A
    Copy OK

    Track 7
    Filename Your Gold Teeth II.wav

    Peak level 79.2 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC EA692D71
    Copy OK

    Track 8
    Filename Chain Lightning.wav

    Peak level 92.3 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC F2EE479A
    Copy OK

    Track 9
    Filename Any World (that I'm welcome to).wav

    Peak level 89.2 %
    Track quality 99.9 %
    Test CRC 92DF470A
    Copy OK

    Track 10
    Filename Throw Back the Little Ones.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Track quality 99.8 %
    Test CRC 637E764D
    Copy OK

    No errors occured

    Steely Dan / Katy Lied (MCAD 37043 S1EI)

    EAC extraction logfile from 24. April 2003, 8:13 for CD


    Used drive : TDK CDRW5200B Adapter: 1 ID: 0
    Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache
    Combined read/write offset correction : 0
    Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

    Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
    44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo

    Other options :
    Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
    Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
    Installed external ASPI interface


    Track 1
    Filename Black Friday.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC E9FBC597
    Copy OK

    Track 2
    Filename Bad Sneakers.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC DDC216B3
    Copy OK

    Track 3
    Filename Rose Darling.wav

    Peak level 94.1 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 8E083081
    Copy OK

    Track 4
    Filename Daddy Don't Live (in that New York City Anymore).wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Track quality 99.9 %
    Test CRC C6BBB8A7
    Copy OK

    Track 5
    Filename Doctor Wu.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 8636206F
    Copy OK

    Track 6
    Filename Everyone's Gone to the Movies.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 573CC0E2
    Copy OK

    Track 7
    Filename Your Gold Teeth II.wav

    Peak level 79.2 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC CCB68CE7
    Copy OK

    Track 8
    Filename Chain Lightning.wav

    Peak level 92.3 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC F2EE479A
    Copy OK

    Track 9
    Filename Any World (that I'm welcome to).wav

    Peak level 89.2 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC B1866878
    Copy OK

    Track 10
    Filename Throw Back the Little Ones.wav

    Peak level 100.0 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 3F19D90F
    Copy OK

    No errors occured
  4. Leppo

    Leppo Forum Librarian

    Location:
    Off Broadway
    you can identify steve's katy lied in many of the same ways that you identify his who's next and aja because all are mca first pressings.

    you have a sh kl for sure if:

    - manufactured in japan
    - "DIDX 373" is printed on inner ring (this is perhaps most important)
    - ""Digital Audio Disc Corp." printed on inner plastic ring
    - there's repro artwork of front cover on back cover
    - "1985 MCA Records" printed on back cover
    - smooth edge jewel case
    - total disc time = 35:38
    - tracks start at 0:00

    sound wise steve's version is identical to the abc lp except his has more mids and it's actually a rare case where the cd sounds better than the lp.

    recently, i found a Columbia Record Club (CRC) version of steve's kl.
    it's the same as above except:

    - made in usa
    - standard jewel case

    and here's a photo of the crc version:

    Attached Files:

  5. vinylrec

    vinylrec Vinyl Fan

    Location:
    Delaware, Ohio
    Both discs total disc time = 35:38 and the tracks start at 0:00
    The only difference is that these were made in Japan by JVC.

    All research indicates that the MCAD 37043 S1EI is the Hoffman disc. The individuals who have this disc bought it the week is came out.
    I even more confused now :sigh:

    Didn't the "Digital Audio Disc Corp" indication start on the discs made in the USA? If the discs were made in Japan wouldn't plastic ring say "CSR Compact Disc" like the "Aja" CD?

    I've never seen a ""Digital Audio Disc Corp" disc that was from Japan...
  6. Leppo

    Leppo Forum Librarian

    Location:
    Off Broadway
    sorry for the confusion grant.
    yes, "digital audio disc corp" is only usa made discs.
    the best way to identify a sh kl is to look for the made in japan by jvc.
  7. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff

  8. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Leppo, I have never heard that the matrix code (code stamped in the inner ring) for Katy Lied has the DIDX number. Rather, I have always been told that matrix code is "MCAD 37043 S1E:1". Are you sure about this? Do you have such a Japanese pressing of Katy Lied with the DIDX number in the inner ring?

    Also, from everything I have read, any early US pressing of Katy Lied (and Aja), including a CRC disc, has the Nichols mix. The Hoffman mix was only used for the first 5,000 copies pressed in Japan.
  9. Leppo

    Leppo Forum Librarian

    Location:
    Off Broadway
    no, i do not.
    DIDX 373 is printed on early crc versions of kl
    early crcs of who's next have sh mastering.
    i wondering if this is true for kl and aja?
  10. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Leppo, from everything I have read, it goes like this for Katy Lied and Aja:

    * First 5,000 copies of each title pressed in Japan: Hoffman's mixes

    * Japanese copies pressed after the first 5,000 copies of each title: Nichols' mixes

    * US pressings after pressing ceased in Japan (for the US market): Nichols' mixes

    So, your CRC Katy Lied would be a Nichols mix. By the way, I have an early CRC copy of Aja, and it has "DIDX 000055" stamped in the inner ring.