Honky Tonk Women*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Raylinds, Apr 9, 2013.

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  1. olsen

    olsen Senior Member

    Location:
    los angeles
    I've heard rumors about the Ry Cooder factor. Can you elaborate on his (alleged:)) crucial influence?
     
  2. jmrife

    jmrife Wife. Kids. Grandkids. Dog. Music.

    Location:
    Wheat Ridge, CO
    From my fading memory: Cooder was at a Stones studio session and was practicing what he called a "pull off". Keith was listening, and having not heard that technique before, asked Cooder to teach him how to make the sound. Cooder was happy to "teach" Keith the technique.

    He then stated that this instruction soon came out as the riff for Honky Tonk Women. He wasn't upset, but the quote, to the best of my memory, was, "That was the day I learned to keep my goods in the store". He credited himself as a crucial influence.

    Players can probably elaborate on exactly what a "pull off" is. I am a listener, not a player.

    Again, all of this is through the haze of memory, so other memories are likely just as accurate.
     
  3. ReadySteady

    ReadySteady Custom Title

    I agree with everyone else about Charlie's drums. Man, they really make the song.

    "Honky Tonk Women" is classic Stones. "Country Honk"... not so much.
     
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  4. Zack

    Zack Senior Member

    Location:
    Easton, MD
    Oh pish posh on the Ry Cooder business. If he was so great why didn't he have any number ones of his own?

    The magic abounds on every level in that song, drums, percussion, guitars dancing around each other, and above all the meter - the space between the notes.

    Cooder did not invent open tuning. He just had a very talented acolyte, and a big ego.
     
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  5. harmonica98

    harmonica98 Senior Member

    Location:
    London, UK
    The story is that Ry Cooder showed Keith how to use open tuning. Whether it is true or not is surely lost in the mists of time.
     
  6. True enough I suppose, but "HTW" was where the country twang really stood out for me.
     
  7. tommy-thewho

    tommy-thewho Senior Member

    Location:
    detroit, mi
    Top 5 of my fav. Stones songs and a true classic.....
     
  8. Cheepnik

    Cheepnik Overfed long-haired leaping gnome

    Required reading: Nick Tosches' essay "The Sea's Endless, Awful Rhythm & Me Without Even a Dirty Picture."
     
  9. reeltime

    reeltime Forum Resident

    Two great chords. Two great decades.
     
  10. Juggsnelson

    Juggsnelson Senior Member

    Location:
    Long Island
    Love Love Love The Stones but this one just never did that much for me! I think I am in the minority on this one though:) I like it but I guess I either like my Stones more "rocking", more "poppy", or just a straight up ballad.
     
  11. MikeM

    MikeM Senior Member

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    To be fair to the OP, the title was rendered "Honky Tonk Woman" in at least a couple of places (the Hot Rocks jacket was one of them, I believe).
     
    Fullbug likes this.
  12. Wonderful song!
     
  13. Adam9

    Adam9 Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй.

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I don't think you missed any but "Rocks Off" was not a single (although maybe it should have been):)
     
  14. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    The song sounded fantastic on the old juke boxes, that kick drum would kill pigeons.
    If you listen to the studio version, it gradually speeds up throughout the song.
    I discovered this because I use it as a workout song on drums. When you play drums to it , it is very obvious it is speeding up.
     
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  15. Fullbug

    Fullbug Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Hahahahaha, like Ry Cooder was gonna run out and write and record Honky Tonk Women. Day late and a dollar short.
     
  16. But Ry is such a much better and diverse player than all of the stones guitarists put together. His playing on Memo from Turner is stunning
     
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  17. RockWizard

    RockWizard Forum Resident

    Another great song that proves you don't have to be fancy to be effective. The opening chords live - a HUGE jolt.
     
  18. olsen

    olsen Senior Member

    Location:
    los angeles
    Fact is, no Stones song sounded like that before HTW. Many did afterwards. Propps to the professor, even if his student ran away with the goods. See also: "Pioneers get the arrows, settlers get the land".
     
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  19. Texastoyz

    Texastoyz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Texas, USA
  20. blueEyedSoul

    blueEyedSoul Active Member

    Location:
    England
    Keith had already been experimenting with various tunings, mindful of the slide guitar used by old bluesmen, and of the guitar work of the likes of Don Everly. He'd mostly been using open E and D. What Richards credits Cooder with is showing him the open G tuning that he then used a lot. In his 2010 autobiography, "Life," Richards says:

    "Ry Cooder was the first cat I actually saw play the open G chord - I have to say I tip my hat to Ry Cooder. He showed me the open G tuning. But he was using it strictly for slide playing and he still had the bottom string. And I decided that was too limiting. I found the bottom string got in the way. I figured out after a bit that I didn't need it; it would never stay in tune and it was out of whack for what I wanted to do. So I took it off and used the fifth string, the A string, as the bottom note... I started playing chords on the open tuning - which was new ground."
     
  21. MRamble

    MRamble Forum Resident

    I am not so sure that Cooder had showed Keith a "pull off"...is it possible you mis-remembered that? A pull off is a very basic technique that any player of the blues and early rock and roll would have most definitely come across. Keith was an experienced player by 1969 so I find it very odd that he would've needed to have been taught a pull off.

    I believe Cooder had showed him the open G tuning.

    How many Stones songs sound like "Gimme Shelter"? or "Paint It Black?" Both those tunes don't sound like any other tune in their catalog....surely we can't presume they lifted those too?
     
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  22. jacksondownunda

    jacksondownunda Forum Resident

    I'm amused by the various lyrics HTW has. There's an alternate vocal of the single version that has the "Sailors on the boulevards of Paris" as the second verse, an alternate "Country Honk" with the "Divorcee in New York City" verse, and of course the Ya-Ya's version with the "Paris" verse (but not in the movie). I think the 'divorcee' lyric in the single was a direct classic hit in a way the 'sailor' verse could never be.

    IIRC, Leon Russell used to sing a "bar room queen in Jackson" version.
     
  23. John54

    John54 Senior Member

    Location:
    Burlington, ON
    My initial reaction to hearing Honky Tonk Women was: :hurl: . That's because it was an obvious change in direction, and not one I cared to listen to.

    I have to admit that on its own merits it's an awfully good song. But it's never going to be among my favourites, which are more along the lines of 19th Nervous Breakdown, Mother's Little Helper and Dandelion.
     
  24. sami

    sami Mono still rules

    Location:
    Down The Shore
    I looked it up, and it actually was released as an A-side only as a Japanese single with "Sweet Virginia" on the flip, so you're kind of right. The same actually applies to "All Down The Line", which was the flip side of "Happy". My memory failed me, as I thought I remembered both as singles.
     
  25. sami

    sami Mono still rules

    Location:
    Down The Shore
    Or "Sympathy For The Devil", for that matter.
     
    MRamble likes this.
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