How Beats by Dr. Dre played the world ......

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Davidmk5, Mar 23, 2015.

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  1. nbakid2000

    nbakid2000 On Indie's Cutting Edge

    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    True, but what is "good" to one person may not be "good" to another.
     
  2. Raider4life

    Raider4life Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wenatchee, WA
    Well I do 40 minutes on the elliptical every day and they do not effect my balance at all...I must have pretty good balance. I do work up a good sweat and that was a concern of mine, but I wipe them off when I am done and so far no problems. I've tried several different ear buds and I just can't stand the sound of them...my el cheapo headphones that I used to wear sound better than any of the ear buds I have tried. I do see the ease of wearing ear buds at the gym though. The selling point for me with the Studios was the wireless feature...it's great.
     
  3. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    You must be buying the wrong earbuds. In fairness, there are some pretty bad ones out there, and unless you get a solid fit and a perfect seal, you're not going to get reasonable bass response and isolation from the room.
     
  4. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    Yeah, what he said! A lot of earbuds come with several sizes of "bud" (sounds like a marijuana dispensary huh) and each size fits differently. That makes a tremendous difference to the feel and the sound. Or, maybe you just don't like the feel in your ears.
     
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  5. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    In ear earphones (what some people call ear buds) need to fit fully in the ear canal and have a full and proper seal in order to sound right. If you don't have the right seal or fit they sound bad. That fit and seal is critical for their sound, yet they don't come with instructions on how to get the right fit and seal. Crazy. Maybe the problem is the method for inserting an IEM in your ear is called the reach-round. And people are reluctant to talk about that in public.

    Get the correct fit and in-ears can sound quite good. You may need to experiment with different tips, different tip sizes, different tip styles, maybe even opt for the foam Comply tips that expand to fit your ear.

    So here as a public service message is the reach-around method, as presented by Etymoic Research:

     
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  6. bcaulf

    bcaulf Forum Resident

    Today I saw a kid wearing these around his head with the band across the back of his head. The cans weren't even on his ears...

    Sadly, I see more people with these around their ears or over a hat covering their ears than actually covering their ears. Clearly it's all about the look. It doesn't bother me though. Most people are fine with something that sounds decent, it just sucks that because of the marketing scheme they're paying more than they should for them.

    And that margin really scares me. I know a lot of companies sell their products for more than it costs to make them but that's a $286 difference right there and that's not okay.
     
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  7. ronm

    ronm audiofreak

    Location:
    southern colo.
    I was "lucky "to find two pair that were demos on ebay.$90 a piece for my two kids.They love them and me? Sound like **** on my equipment.But... it made their X-mas so it wasn't a total flush of $180.
     
  8. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    That's my objection, too. My philosophy is, the last thing I want is to wear some bright, colorful, gaudy piece of crap on my head when I'm trying to pump iron or run. I want something very small and very subtle, something very lightweight that won't ever get in my way. A pair of Beats headphones is almost a pound; a pair of high-quality earbuds is about an ounce. Which do you think gets in your way more?
     
  9. bcaulf

    bcaulf Forum Resident

    It seems to not be a problem to people because I see them at the gym all time. I bring Apple EarPods to the gym and I'm constantly finding that I have to shove them back into my ears. I know those aren't the best though; some in ears are good. Some are even made for the gym.
     
  10. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    The Apple ear pod is not an in-ear earphone. True in-ear earphones actually go inside the ear canal rather than just sit in the folds of the outer ear near the ear canal. A true in-ear earphone won't fall out of your ear.
     
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  11. bcaulf

    bcaulf Forum Resident

    What is an EarPod then, technically?
     
  12. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    bcaulf likes this.
  13. You are accidentally putting your opinion in front of others desires and decisions. The idea that Beats are fraudulent is your opinion. I suspect you have based your opinion on some comparative shopping and real world experience, which is how you can form an opinion. The fact that Beats can be technically bettered by less expensive product is moot and only important to those looking for technically better product. The purchaser of Beats products has the same opportunity to shop and compare as you. They are not forced to purchase anything made by Beats nor are they restricted from looking elsewhere to fill their needs and desires. I also feel your analogy using Escorts to Ferrari's is somewhat misguided in that you, the purchaser, are equally able to test and compare both cars and choose which is the best value for your needs and desires and then make a decision. When you try to compare empirical data and perceived status in the same sentence you make a comparison to things that are not equally measurable. 1/4 mile ET's, cornering G forces, stopping distances, fuel economy, and related data are physically bound and technically comparable. The status a certain item will provide the user is based on completely different scales and should not be confused with the previous empirical data. They do add up to a final figure in knowledgeable decision making processes. But, sometimes, knowledge and desire are not used in conjunction when making purchases. Beats, and their marketing style have proven that desire can often outperform empirical data. No amount of helpful guidance can deter a person bent on fulfilling a desire to be perceived as in style. Again, Beats has nailed this fact with a perfect bulls eye. When styles wane Beats will either establish itself as the new, desirable style or fade into whatever they manage to hold onto based on their empirical data. When it comes to this type of argument I like to use a bread analogy. In a free market economy, if I make bread to sell that is so desirable, for whatever reason, that people are willing to pay more to get it than comparable other offerings am I cheating the willing customer who pays my price? No, I have found a market that desires my product and I am delivering. Beats is the same thing...I am not buying Beats products because I have found other products that fill my needs and desires in a manner that suits me better. But I also realize that my opinion really only works for me regardless of what it is based upon.
    I can certainly guide, advise, steer, help others with my opinion but in the end they make their own decision.
     
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  14. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    Saying that someone buying Beats has the opportunity to shop and compare other headphones misses the point that young people don't have the experience to judge what is actual good sound quality just by listening. They don't have the experience. And you can't expect them to instantly achieve the necessary experience, cause getting that experience takes years or decades of listening and guidance.

    17 year-old me didn't have the necessary experience to properly pick out a suitable headphone. I went shopping for a headphone back then. Tried several at a store. Came home with a Sony MDR-V6. Oh god. Adult me wishes he could go back and warn 17 year-old me that those headphones are not what I would consider good and would recommend something different. Back then I didn't know. I was clueless. Didn't know what good headphone audio was supposed to sound like. I certainly could have done worse. But adult me considers the Sony V6 to be a terrible headphone for music listening that strips the soul out of the music. It's a monitoring headphone. It is not a music listening headphone. I didn't know or appreciate the difference. How could you expect me to at that age?
     
    Dino likes this.
  15. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Correct, and I've backed up my opinion with several links from other people who also believe that Beats are very, very bad-sounding, inaccurate, overpriced headphones. I'm not sure if "fraud" is the right word, and I agree that in a free economy companies have the right to market poorly-made products and sell them for whatever price they want. But I think Beats headphones would still be a very bad choice if they retailed for $59.95 or $99.95, let alone $300.

    "Extraordinarily bad..."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/09/beats-headphones-reviews_n_5294628.html

    "Why not to buy the Beats by Dre headphones..."
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1376663

    "What are Beats and why are they so bad?"
    http://beatssuck.com/?page_id=17

    "10 headphones Better than Beats..."
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/geoffreymorrison/2013/11/09/10-headphones-better-than-beats/

    "Beats are next to the bottom in the survey..."
    http://time.com/74886/best-headphones/

    "a triumph of marketing over sound quality..."
    http://www.cnet.com/news/bad-beats-why-was-the-original-beats-studio-headphone-so-popular/
     
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  16. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I agree, the Apple earbuds will fall out. You've got to have a tight fit and solid rubber gaskets for the buds. I also sometimes flip the cable over my neck and onto my back, just so the cables get out of my way when I'm trying to move around with dumbbells and barbells. I may investigate wireless earbuds purely for convenience, but I'm wary of batteries going dead at inopportune moments, and I don't like the idea of the additional analogue transmission step involved with Bluetooth.

    Doh, and I see Ham Sandwich precisely answered the question already. My bad.
     
  17. Raider4life

    Raider4life Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wenatchee, WA
    I just used what my kids called great earbuds and they just sound awful to me...oh well. I'm all in with the Studios for now and maybe next time I will shop ear buds better. One thing I do know is that I will never go back to anything that has a wire for the gym. The battery going out is an issue, but I put them on the charger every 2 to 3 days and I don't have a problem. I carry my apple ear buds with me in my gym bag in case of an emergency.
     
  18. OnTheRoad

    OnTheRoad Not of this world

    Shine on....

    My point was made....others understand, even if the 'definition' was incorrect.

    Just like Troyh posts....

    My emphasis on forced.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
  19. One of my nephews had a pair with him while we were visiting back home, so I gave the Beats a whirl. The 'sound' is much like that of a 'loudness' button on a stereo. By no means accurate, but pumping, ya dig? The kid loves listening to them while he plays games on his computer & we loved not listening to him playing games on his computer. Win - win!
     
  20. Experience is a two way street. Never forget it takes ten years to get ten years experience. Along that path we make choices based on many different things and our experience up to that point is one guiding factor. Making mistakes, at least in my opinion, is one of our greatest teachers. Had you chosen a truly "Zen" set of phones as your first, back when you were 17, would you have had the experience to know your choice was so good? I think not. Somebody may have told you they were special, or you may have then tested them against friends equipment and gained experience, but you would not have had the personal experience to know any different at the beginning. When you bought the V6's, for good reasons to you back then based on your situation, you thought they were pretty fantastic. I'll bet you experienced some great music with them as well. As you lived your life you were exposed to other headphone choices. This broadened your experience level and thus your knowledge level. You are where you are now because of your choice in the V6's and your choice to keep looking for something better, or at least taking advantage of some opportunity to listen to other headphones and gain experience with something better. The young people buying Beats are gaining experience with their choice. If, over time, they are open to new opportunities they too may learn they could have purchased something better the first time around, much like your V6's. Don't try to "save" them from Beats because they most likely made the choice to buy Beats for reasons that make little logical sense...because they do not have the experience to know better and are not yet knowledgeable enough to understand the options and opportunities to do better. Yes, if asked do your best to guide them and share your knowledge and experience level.
     
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  21. Great post. My nephew loves his Beats headphones & they put a smile on his face. What's the harm, that Dr. Dre & his cronies are making some serious bank? There are bigger problems to worry about...
     
    MarkO likes this.
  22. Vidiot, I get your direction and I agree with it to a point. My struggle revolves around people forcing their opinion to the point they begin believing and acting as if it is now fact. While your opinion may be based on a trend your opinion will always be just that, your opinion. In my mind one is always entitled to their opinion and I'm entitled to do with that opinion as I see fit.
     
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  23. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    I consider my Sony V6 headphones to have stolen over 7 years of sonic exploration and proper musical enjoyment from me. I thought I was enjoying the music while listening to them. But I wasn't. You can't with those headphones. I was exploring classical music back then. Lots of classical. Classical music recordings have a certain style of soundstage that the Sony V6 is totally incompatible with. The V6 distorts the soundstage. It has a sort of soundstage spacial flanging that causes the soundstage to suckout to move and alter and at times invert. Its soundstage flanging is so bad that it is the only "good" headphone I know of that is not capable of reproducing the sound effects in a binaural recordings. I consider the Sony V6 to have been the worst well respected headphone choice I could have made given my listening desires and the music I was listening to. But the V6 was well regarded so I didn't suspect it was a problem and didn't question. I didn't have the experience to, and those with experience weren't telling me it was bad.

    Now that I have experience I view the Sony V6 as an absolutely horrible headphone. When I graduated college and bought a Sennheiser HD580 it was a revelation. It was OMG! This is what I've been wanting to hear. Headphones actually can have soundstage. Headphone sound isn't supposed to be so wonky. The Sennheiser HD580 was the type of headphone sound I wish I had been listening to all through college. If I only knew.

    If you're willing to condemn a young music lover who is exploring music to 7 years of sonic hell because of choosing a bad "well regarded" headphone then Beats are OK. After having experienced that myself I'm not OK with that. Youth is a time of learning and exploring. I was learning and exploring music. You don't get those years back. You need to be guided to make the choices to make the most of those years. I view my years of listening to the Sony to have highly hampered my music exploration. If the music was better listening I would have enjoyed it more and explored it more than I did. That's one of the consequences of bad headphones.
     
    Dino likes this.
  24. Ham, Sandwich, I think using words like "condemn" and "sonic hell" to describe headphone listening are far fetched. You did not have 7 years of sonic exploration "stolen" from you. Your seven years were spent listening to something different than you now enjoy but I'm guessing you did enjoy what you were listening to at the time. Also, a person is rarely youthful and experienced at the same time. You gotta start somewhere and the beginning is where the vast majority of us jump off. Think of all the firsts in your life and try to remember them for what they really were. They were most likely exciting and new but not necessarily the best you have experienced to date. Better usually comes at the hands of not so good and not so good is often the delivery method for experience. Do not forget that your opinion of the Beats, and Sony V6, headphones is an opinion. While others may share your opinion it is still an opinion, not a fact. Just because you like the equipment you now have does not make your equipment the bees knees to all and it certainly does not make equipment you deem unworthy worthless to everyone else either. You have an opinion about headphones, in this case Beats headphones, based on your experience and desires...and it is valid but it ain't no fact Mr.
     
    ronm likes this.
  25. nbakid2000

    nbakid2000 On Indie's Cutting Edge

    Location:
    Springfield, MO
    Every single person who buys Beats has the opportunity to type into Google searches for reviews on headphones or try them out in the store. Every person I've met who has Beats products love them. They think they sound great. Beats is delivering a product that consumers want. If consumers don't research before buying, that's not Beats' fault. If consumers purchase Beats simply because they look cool, that's on the consumer, not Beats.

    If Beats don't sound good but the person who listens to Beats thinks they sound great, who's at fault? Is Beats brainwashing people? Again, every single person buying Beats has access to research and sources. If you choose not to implement it or buy something and love it, why is that the company's fault?
     
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