How can 30-year-old receivers sound better than new ones?

I feel exactly the same way. From the mid 90's on, I have been going through waning interests in audio in general even though financially I have been much better off. Audio just is not as much fun as it used to be ...

 

I think a good part of that is the stratospheric prices of the really high-end, because in my experience the level of sound quality obtainable for "reasonable" amounts of money has never been better, and the same goes for the ease of finding great used gear. Maybe that's the other part of that feeling; it's TOO easy to put together a great sounding system.

My advice? take advantage of it and start listening to music!

 

I think the '70 to '80 amps sounded much better and sounded very 'real'. Different amps, different sounds, but they all, most of them anyway, sounded simply great! And yes, stereos were 'much more fun back then'! It wasn't serious at all, no 'thinking' was involved, ya just got your new amp, plugged it in, and it was like: Yeah, Bash!! It worked and sounded just wonderful, perfect. It was a mesmorizing period of audop equipment and music. An ' era '.

I just finished putting together a '70s through '87 complete Sansui system. It took 7 years. It's super hard to find those accessories. It's done now. It was a lot of fun putting it together, and it's a whole lotta fun listening to it now! Straight up..it's pure fun and happiness! Even just to look at it when it's turned off and disconnected from the electrical socket in the wall. It's beautiful.

I don't analyze nothing, the sound quality is wonderful coming out of this 1987 AU-X901, I'm still 'living the Sansui fun'. :>)

 

Well I for one don't miss it at all. Those were the days when I felt I needed to upgrade constantly. My latest system sounds so good to me that there is no longer that desire for upgrading. Maybe the drive to upgrade is fun for other people. Not for me.

 

If it means anything, for those into music but not obsessed with "audio nirvana", there are more and more stereo receiver being introduced by mid-fi companies like Pioneer, Harmon/Kardon, Sony, Yamaha and Onkyo, priced from $150 up to $1000+. And the ones I've read about have little if any of the complicated set-up procedures that most surround sound receivers require i.e. they are basically plug-n-play like the vintage models.

And while audio purists may pooh-pooh this feature, more and more of them include either inputs for MP3 players or cell phones with mini-jacks or wirelessly via Bluetooth; or dedicated connections specifically designed for iPods and iPhones, sophisticated enough that the receiver's remote can control those devices along with an onscreen display using the owner's TV screen if desired.

Here's a few.......

Onkyo TX-8255 with phono input

Denon DRA-297

Sony STR-DH100

Yamaha stereo receivers - six in all! Many with phono inputs. And the new R-Sxxx series looks great.

Harman/Kardon HK 3490 - one of the first receivers I know of to include digital inputs.

TEAC AG-790A

BTW the following aren't actually receivers (but can be easily connected to one), but wanted to include these network tuners since so many people, me for one , listen to a lot of music via all those internet stations that are out there and I don't mean just Spotify and Pandora; most can also play files stored on your computer:

FYI for the "tuner" portion these don't need a computer to work, just a broadband connection.

REVO "Mondo"

Grace "Solo"

Denon DNP-720AE

Yamaha NP-S2000

 

if not having enough connections isn't a problem,there's always no remote either!
that is a problem

 

A distant relative did the same. Those Sansui speakers got around—Poo-Bah records in Pasadena had a pair and the friend how gave me a Kenwood KR 9600 also has a pair. Super efficient, super loud speakers.

 

I hate to sound like a lazy ****, but I have two older receivers in the house, neither of which includes remote capability, and that drives me nuts. Getting up and down to adjust volume can really blow the mood with many albums, particularly long prog rock tracks.

The invention of the first remote control should have a holiday set aside just for that day, and nachos & good beer is the official meal.

Speaking of that.......

"New Remote Control Can Be Operated By Remote"

 

Do a saved search on eBay for a Pioneer RC-760 Remote Control Center Unit. Hooks though the receiver's pre-out/main-in loop (if available) or tape loop and provides remote-controlled power on/off and volume, and additional inputs (or passthrough).

One sold recently for $10.50 (!!!), and it even included the often-lost remote control. Usually you'll need to use a programmable universal remote like the Logitech Harmony series.

 

I just re-read this vintage vs. modern thread. I recently substituted a Scott R376 integrated 75WPC integrated (which I found for less than 100 and is cool looking to boot) for the Rotel separates (RB 980 / RC 960) that I had been running forever (since the early 90's). The Scott - to my surprise - blew the Rotel away. It is much warmer, more mid range depth, more involving low end. The Rotel stuff sounds thin by comparison in driving my Paradigm Studio 20's. This has now whetted my vintage curiosity. But for me at the end of the day, the question is : if you had $500 or so to spend on an integrated would you go with a "modern" mid-fi something or other - maybe a Music Hall - or a mint condition vintage something or other - maybe a Marantz 2270 or 2285? Since the days of auditioning things at real stores are over for most of us, the perspectives we can get here are particularly important - however "subjective" they may be. Responses appreciated!

 

I have a combination of vintage and modern equipment. I much prefer to listen to my vintage setups most of the time and like the sound better. I think you get more for your money with the vintage setups. I have a Marants 2325 among a lot of other vintage gear. However, with anything vintage like the 2270 or 2285 it will need to have a good tech go through it and replace any capacitors , dial lamps(replaced mine with LED's), etc. To me, the build quality and engineering on that equipment is second to none. So once it has been serviced properly it will last a very long time.

 

What kind of cost might typically be expected for a "tune up" of a vintage amp - one which is functional (both channels work, lamps ok, etc.). I am actually thinking some of the pieces I have - Scott R376, Onkyo A10 - sound quite good but maybe they could sound better with capacitor replacement, etc. and maybe a tune up is a good idea from a preventive maintenance point of view. Or maybe I am over-thinking! What else other than capacitors should be replaced or at leats checked. I believe I may have a local electronics place that could do stuff like that but I would like to know what to expect in cost (and of course any extent to which that begins to diminish the cost effectiveness of vintage equipment).

 

As an additional set up Vintage amp&speakers are okay imo; but for some stuff I want to have a modern main set--up to have a reference point.

Vintage gear often has a different sound, warmer, more on a 'natural' basic level than ultra high resolving gear of today - smaller speakers, no tone controls etc. make the contest between vintage + modern gear more difficult.

 

Two real nice pieces of equipment ! It's really hard to determine whether they may sound nicer. It's possible the bias and offset could be out of spec and some of the electrolytic capacitors and transistors could need replaced. If so, it may sound a little nicer and once you get into something like that you always want to make like replacements on both sides of the amp so there aren't any audio imbalances. As a result, it can get more expensive. However, it may be that only preventive maintenance need done like cleaning the pots and switches with Deoxit, reseating the output transistors with new compound, etc. You could be looking at anything from $75.00 to several hundred dollars. You may want to do some of the work if you so desire. There are many threads on this kind of stuff here and at Audiokarma including the location of good vintage techs in each state.

 

It'd cost hundreds to do it right and still wouldn't cover 90% of the things that could fail in the unit. I'd scrap that idea altogether. I restore some tube gear when it's clearly got potential and is cost effective but SS gear is not usually the same, especially receivers. Way too many switches and such to crap out. Many are custom made for the units and are not available.

Also you are likely getting a trade-off in sound quality, not just a warmer sound from the vintage receiver. You are also likely losing a lot of resolution. Here's what I'd do. Sell both the receiver (unless you want to use it in the garage or another room) and buy a nice, modern tube preamp. Connect the preamp to your power amp and bam, much better sound and still have modern components with plenty of years left in them. Here's a USA made tube preamp for just about $1k:



You can get it with a black faceplate if you like. The tube cage is removable too.

-Bill

 

Thanks - super helpful... the bottom line I derive from this is just enjoy the "vintage" SS integrated amp that I paid anywhere from 50 bucks (Scott R376) to maybe 125 bucks (Onkyo A10) for and stop sweating the tweaks. It ain;t broke so do not fix it. I have a Sansui 8080 DB as well. Do not have it set up right now because it's HUGE. But it does work. This stuff works fine and sounds good - yes, looks cool too. Maybe that's just blissful ignorance on my part - very well could be. Again, these integrateds blow away my old Rotel separates at least to my ears. Maybe I just never had the right pre-amp to match to the RB980 BX - not sure. I had a RC960BX but not a 1080 or 15 series (or Adcom 565). Anyway, it's really not worth the expense to "tweak" the not broken vintage integrateds. I would be best spending that $$ on new stuff. But finding old stuff is fun - especially when it's cheap. One of these days I might invest in a Music Hall A35.2, 25.2 or 15.2 or something comparable. It will probably be "cleaner" but will it be as "warm" - not sure. I just have not had the opportunity to hear any truly "modern" budget audiophile stuff. I wonder if anybody carries Music Hall anywhere near Cincinnati. I am definitely a "moneyball" dude when it comes to this stuff. Although I love the hobby I do not see myself investing $1000 a pop (and then the right interconnects and all of that) in separates. This lazy old dude just seeks the right warm SS integrated under 1000 and preferably closer to 500. The old Paradigm Studio 20's and 11se floorstanders seem to be ifne as well. Maybe that magic reasonably priced warm, powerful and new integrated is out there - not sure.

 

I have a Sansui 9090 and recently sold an 8080DB. The 8080 is a great sounding receiver from that period and really coveted by many vintage enthusiasts for its looks and sound. That receiver is worth investing a little money into if it needs any work. Enjoy em'

 

Recently picked up a 2238B which I absolutely love. Like you say, warm and very easy to listen to.

 

a "modern" classic, and an ideal answer to that particular dilemma;


PIONEER VSX-D1S STEREO RECEIVER (1990, 130wRMS @8ohms, 2~16ohms stable)

 

If you mean colored and lacking detail as better .

 

I certainly agree that a set of high end seperates will show up a vintage receiver, but if you play at the entry level an older receiver can still be a great value.

I recently tried replacing a 12yr old Yamaha RX-V995 receiver with a Peachtree Nova. After 3 months of trying to convince myself that I liked it, I sold the Nova and placed the Yamaha receiver back in service using a Cambridge Audio Dacmajic along with it. I much prefer the sound with this combo, I thought the Peachtree added a hard edge on the top end of everything. I ended up buying another Yamaha RX-V995 on Ebay for all of $90 to use in my second system. I'm convinced it would cost several thousand dollars to get something I would like better than the Yamaha.

 

I have an RX-V995 pulling PS3 duty in the basement and it never has skipped a beat since day one. Agree though that it would sound much better with the DacMagic. I have some higher end vintage separates and after doing a shoot out the Yamaha got beat pretty badly. Great receiver though that has never failed and it has thousands of hours on it.

 

You could go with a more modern pre-amp with remote control volume and couple it to older receiver/amplifier for the power amp.

 

Also, you could attach a Logitech Squeezebox (Touch or Duet) or similar device which has a nice remote that will control volume. I have this solution on a couple of vintage separate setups and it works well.