how come graphic equalizers went out of fashion?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by 93curr, Mar 23, 2005.

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  1. 93curr

    93curr Senior Member Thread Starter

    they used to be everywhere back in the 70's.

    wouldn't the idea of "customizing" the sound to match you own personal hearing be exactly the kind of thing iPods could use as a marketing gimmick?

    you'd think there'd at least be some kind of equalizer function on computers.
     
  2. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    There is, in Windows Media Player. Plus, some settings called "WOW Effects" which, as far as I can tell, helps your computer make non-overcompressed and maximized CD's sound overcompressed and maximised. I may be wrong about WOW effects - I'm no expert - but that seems to be what it does to my ears.

    I used to play around with the Windows Media Player EQ, but I stopped after I noticed that it actually created clipping in the playback of some songs. I actually thought that the Redbook layer of my Blonde On Blonde hybrid had clipping on "Leopard Skin Pill Box Hat" until I listened to it in my car stereo. I now set my Media Player EQ to flat settings.
     
  3. quicksilverbudie

    quicksilverbudie quicksilverbudie

    Location:
    Ontario
    #1 would be "distortion" added to the signal.... I was a believer at one time but the wife said it added distortion which I believed it did, ok for a mid or low end Hi-Fi system but as you get better gear you really don't need one. My Audible Illusions M3A doesn't even have tone controls.

    sean
     
  4. RZangpo2

    RZangpo2 Forum Know-It-All

    Location:
    New York
    iTunes also has a built in equalizer. As for stand-alone EQ, I hear that recent units have such low distortion that people can't tell "blind" whether they're in or out of the system. So EQ is on my audio wish list. I'm tired of putting up with engineers' annoying EQ choices (present company excepted, of course ;)). With my own EQ I'll take back control!

    Experts in small room acoustics also say that EQ is good to perfectly flatten in-room bass response, which is impossible to do with set-up and room treatment alone. Just be sure to use the EQ to knock down peaks, not to fill in valleys.
     
  5. Ski Bum

    Ski Bum Happy Audiophile

    Location:
    Vail, CO
    In a high end (and, possibly, many mid-fi systems) the distortion, veiling, loss of low level detail and imaging, noise, etc. of an extra component in the signal chain will generally outweigh the benefits of the EQ. It may be possible to build an EQ that is sufficiently quiet, transparent and distortion-free to be of real benefit (and the $10,000+ Cello Audio Palette from the 1980s might qualify in this respect), but it would likely be very expensive and not sell well (as was the case with the Cello).

    The tried and true approach on the high end is to select components and make listening room adjustments carefully so that little or no tonal adjustment is necessary. Admittedly, this is not always possible. BTW, I believe that a fair number of powered subwoofers do have their own tone controls (my Revel subs do).
     
  6. BradOlson

    BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven

    The WOW is great for DJ use to help boost the bass, etc. but for home use, it isn't a good idea.
     
  7. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    I used to have some inexpensive SS equipment and a graphic EQ. The more I got things like that into the chain, the more I was chasing things around EQ-wize. It's a mess. It's like steering a car with bent wheels and axels.

    Then I got a complete tube chain and I ran things flat always. Never EVER have I since needed or wanted an EQ in the chain.
     
  8. 93curr

    93curr Senior Member Thread Starter

    no, I get why it's a bad idea (hey, my preamp doesn't have tone controls either). what I'm wondering is why it stopped being popular.
     
  9. MITBeta

    MITBeta New Member

    Location:
    Plymouth, MA
    Maybe because they found news ways to make good music sound like crap?
     
  10. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Yep, a good EQ like Steve uses to adjust his playback is around $10,000. I just don't have the much coin.
     
  11. Drew

    Drew Senior Member

    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    I used to be firm believer in EQ, but I've since learned the error of my ways.

    If your swapping between 2 or 3 sets of speakers, how do you know what they really sound like if your constantly fiddling with EQ? Or swapping amps, or the cartridge on your turntable.

    I mean, most people don't have multiple amps... but I think you have to be really familiar with what you have before you can decide what to upgrade. And an equalizer creates to many variables.
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    I use this EQ:

    http://www.massenburg.com/cgi-bin/ml/mod9500.html

    It is NOT in my playback chain though; zat is mit out ze tone controle.
     
  13. axnyslie

    axnyslie Forum Resident

    I think they went out of fashion when people merged from home stereos to home theaters. If your system is primarily used for DVDs then EQs tens to be overkill and not necessary.

    I however am using two Audiosource EQs for the from mains and surrounds in a quad setup. I find my Denon is a bit flat sounding without them. It's a blend of boost & cut and adds no noise or distortion and helps open up the stereo and MC imaging and improves high end clarity. Sure I'd prefer a high end tube set up bit it's just not economically feasible.
     
  14. Jamie Tate

    Jamie Tate New Member

    Location:
    Nashville
  15. Jamie Tate

    Jamie Tate New Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    Leave the tone controls off. Talented people like Steve Hoffman and his peers have carefully adjusted the music for maximum pleasure and fidelity. :D

    Also, turn all that DSP surround environmental enhancement crap off too. If something needs reverb on it the guy mixing it with do it for you. :D
     
  16. Metoo

    Metoo Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Spain (EU)
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that some non-professional (that means ones not meant for recording studios) EQs insert delays in the signal at different frequencies -depending on how they are tweaked- creating general havoc with digital sources.

    On the other hand, don't those new surround equipments with the self adjusting setups (channel volume, speaker distance...) include some sort of EQ in the process?
     
  17. Ski Bum

    Ski Bum Happy Audiophile

    Location:
    Vail, CO
    THX processing includes EQ (among other things, it boosts the bass). Although many "experts" advise using THX processing when watching Dolby or DTS encoded movie DVDs, I prefer to leave the THX off with almost all movies. YMMV (I have come across a couple of movies with the THX logo on the discs that do seem to sound better with the THX processing on). Even the experts agree that you should leave the THX off when listening to surround sound music.
     
  18. Taurus

    Taurus Senior Member

    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    Maybe the same reason loudness buttons have pretty much disappeared, though I still don't know why they were deleted in the first place (IMO they are very useful at low listening volumes).

    The following is not recommended reading for audiophiles, audio mavens, audio purists, or straight-wire-with-gain fans! :D

    For many people not worried about the added distortion* I think graphic EQs are a much easier solution for helping to solve bass-related speaker/room interaction problems than moving furniture around or hanging up ugly wall acoustical treatments with a very low WAF rating. Or, if you have a really cheesy pair of speakers, up to a point you can substantially improve their basic overall sound (but not their imaging capabilities for example).

    Another possible reason for some people not buying them: they don't know what they are. At the local Best buys they sell an AudioSource model but it's hard to hear because they ARE NEVER HOOKED UP TO ANYTHING. :rolleyes: And they also feature a groovy multi-color LED frequency spectrum analyzer which I as a sci-fi nerd :cool: think can look really cool at night.

    As has already been mentioned, some recordings just aren't very good and need all the help they can get. One well-known example is The Beatles' 1 compilation CD. If I didn't have a treble control on my receiver like I do, I would never listen to this CD (unfortunately the overcompression aspect isn't alleviated along with the tizzy hi-end).

    Another example is Mezzazine by Massive Attack. Overall this album sounds quite good but this CD has so much bass that on my system I can't really turn it up like I can 95% of my other CDs. This is because the 8" woofers in my Bostons start bottoming out. Another example, this time a movie: Attack Of The Clones. This dvd has instances of extremely low bass** (around 25-20Hz if I recall) that do the same thing as the Massive CD but much worse. Since I don't have a sub along with it's own level control, an EQ would be very handy. As it is now, I'm lucky my receiver's tone cotnrol is centered at 50Hz so I can prevent the bottoming with both recordings but this results in a rather thin overall sound as a result since it's action also affects nearby frequencies (controls centered at the more common 100Hz don't do much for the bottoming AND they can cause a thin sound, all at the same time). A graphic EQ with its narrower/multiple band controllers wouldn't have this problem (unless it was really crappily designed).

    And yes, I realize tone controls and graphic equalizers can be abused but why totally blow them off because of a few bass & treble extremists?

    * technically speaking there is added distortion, but is it audible? Compared to a nasty room bass "boom" problem, I'll bet it isn't.

    ** I can't really hear it but the woofers go visibly crazy and the speakers' rear-mounted ports cause posters to flutter hanging a foot away.
     
  19. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    True. Why leave people with tone controls when they're already pumping up modern media with enough gliss and boom to make a young adult deaf already?
     
  20. Dingusboy

    Dingusboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Waterville, Ohio
    A Stereo used to be a hands-on experience at the mid-fi level. Tone controls, EQ's, Vinyl flipping, etc. I'm guessing many folk (not necessarily people reading this) never want to get near their HT set-up once the interconnects are hooked-up. Remote control baby!

    I personally don't want to muck up the chain with those additions but I doubt mass market companies think much about goofballs like me.

    As was mentioned earlier, I do miss the loudness option at times. For low level listening they come in handy even if they do "muck" it up a bit. Yamaha had the variable loudness which I thought was kinda cool.
     
  21. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Steve, when you mentioned fixing the eq on some of the discs you have I thought you meant in your playback system. I'm guessing now, that you re-eq those discs while burning a new disc. Right?
     
  22. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    My Mac 4100 has that feature too! :cool:
     
  23. dgsinner

    dgsinner New Member

    Location:
    Far East
    Isn't an equalizer necessary if you want to "fix" a futzted-with recording? You may not want it in your listening system...but I remember reading somewhere Steve recommending certain EQ fixes for the MSFL Beatles box set lps--something I want to do someday when I get my box out of storage and archive it to disc or reel...

    Seems like an equalizer is a necessity for some applications.
     
  24. Metoo

    Metoo Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Spain (EU)
    What you mention is interesting, but I was referringmainly to those HTIB or A/V amps that include a mike that you put at the sweet spot and they automatically balance and set all the settings.
     
  25. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    Hmmmm... this thread got me a'thinkin.

    My pre-amp has NO tone controls whatsoever.

    But, I do have this JBL Synthesis EQ (PDF link) that is a righteous EQ for my home theater sub. Has nice L/R channel EQ that is not currently being used.

    Wonder if I should give it a shot?
     
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