How do you audition a turntable?

To my understanding, the Shindo table has many, many upgrades/changes, not the least of which is the bearing and platter, and then you have to take into account the tonearm and modified SPU.
This is a highly specialized tonearm/cart combo built with each other in mind through decades of perfecting their synergy, the rake angle alone, while looking intense, is there for a reason. I don't think the Artisan tables can begin to approach the Shindo for the sheer amount of R&D put into it, but that's my opinion. I've personally heard neither, everything is based on what I've read and from talking to people with firsthand knowledge of the design.

 

My bravest thing in Hi-fi was the change, after twenty years from various Linn LP12s to the Michell Orbe. I had to sell the LP12 to do it.
If I did right I still don't know,I can't go back and try them side by side, but am really enjoying my system at the moment.
Try finding a dealer who will let you try a number of expensive cartridges at home, no chance, to him they are now second hand.

 

A George Merrill (Merrill-Wiliams) R.E.A.L 101.2 would be under strong consideration, if I were ever to buy another table, no matter what the budget.

If it's a cost no object thing anyway, a trip to Memphis to audition one would be fun!

☺

 

Good point. As an aside, however, when I heard the Shindo Garrard it was set up with an EMT cart which is what I believe they are recommending now. I'm keeping my Koetsu, so not sure how that plays into your comment about the evolution of the Shindo design, rake angle, etc.

 

Seriously?
That seems so weird to use an EMT when the Shindo-modified SPU is specifically designed and set-up for that arm.
No knock on EMT or Koetsu (I just had the Onyx Platinum for a few weeks), but to not use the Shindo cart on their TT doesn't compute.
It's called the Shindo/Garrard 301 system for a reason isn't it?

 

Great review by Jack Roberts that goes into amazing detail of the Shindo table, its design and set up:

http://www.dagogo.com/shindo-301-turntable-review

 

If memory serves me, the Shindo table does come with the Shindo-modifies SPU. I should verify all of this so I'm not posting incorrect info, but I believe that is correct.

That said, the EMT cart with the Auditorium 23 T2 Hommage SUT is what has been recommended.

 

Brian, I get the feeling you like to "go big", and I totally understand that, but you might want to also consider putting a 301 together yourself (I just did it). You can buy a like new, totally restored 301 from Audio Grail in the UK, a plinth from Artisan Fidelity or Woodsong, and a Schick tonearm for $7500. I would imagine (yes with no proof, I could be wrong) that this would get you 90% to the Shindo for 1/4 the price. At the least it would tell you what the 301 sound is about, and if you wanted to sell it in a couple of years for the Shindo you wouldn't lose much. On the other hand, I get "buy once buy right". I just wanted to throw this stuff out there.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Garrard-301-Turntable-Special-Edition-Sable-By-AUDIO-GRAIL-/201381526960
http://thomas-schick.com/produkte/12-schick-arm
https://app.audiogon.com/listings/t...ng-audio-2015-07-09-analog-83864-sandpoint-id

 

By whom? The A23 Homage SUT I could see as a great mate, but why the EMT?

 

A23 makes a version of the T2 specifically for the Shindo SPU.

If you are asking why Matt recommends the EMT over the Shindo SPU, I should clarify that he never said one was better than the other. Perhaps he recommended the EMT because of my taste in music. Not sure.

Just dug through some emails and here's what Matt said regarding the EMT's:

You heard the TSD15 on the 301 table with EMT arm... You could also consider the JSD6 which is like a super version of the TSD15, which you heard - super fine line stylus.. digs deeper into the grooves and is even more resolute and natural / coherent top to bottom.​

 

Interesting, so the Shindo Mersault arm wasn't even in use. That explains the EMT then, with the Shindo arm not mounted, you're free to experiment much more with carts I guess?

 

Also, if you are using the Shindo SPU, you can go directly to the MC input on your Vosne preamp. No SUT necessary, as that's what the MC input was designed for.

 

When I read about the Shindo TT/arm it´s obvious they are aiming for a certain type of 'sound'. They are speaking of how damping the TT/arm can make it sound 'not dynamic' and effortless. I seems one has to buy into those things and like that type of sound, and at the same time spend a fair amount of money.

 

+1...it's a deck worth considering for sure plus Memphis music, good food and a damn good time...

 

Yep. That's true.

 

i'm just going to put this image in here, too

 

Yeah, but it's a pretty amazing sound.

 

In principle the same problem in auditioning a turntable exists with other components.

There is a scientific concept called randomization of factors. This is not as powerful as direct manipulation of factors but with a large enough sample it is quite effective. What I mean is that if you keep one thing constant and randomly vary everything else in enough different ways and enough different trials the constant effect begins to rise above the noise. So by reading about a particular component in different reviews and reading forum experiences you can get a fairly good idea of its intrinsic character. It won't tell you whether it will work great in your system but it will help you decide what to audition.

 

I'm deathly afraid to visit the Oswald's Mill guys. I'm already in love with their AC-1 speakers. I know nothing about this particular table though other than what's on their site. Anyone actually hear it?

Aesthetically, I could live with it as I'm sure it's much better looking in person given the difficulty in photographing anything black. I already reached out to Jonathan Weiss with some questions on this table. It's $30K, but not sure if that includes the arms. If it does, it might be worth considering. If not, ouch. I mean, ouch either way, but I'd have to think pretty hard if I was gonna go over $30K, especially since I'd want to take advantage of the dual arm configuration.

I will absolutely own a pair of the AC-1's one day though. I'm sure of that.

 

Basis Inspiration is what I heard at the Basis factory. That thing is pure precision instrument which is what I look for in a turntable. I have to agree with SH, let the cartridge dictate the sound of the system (even there I prefer the most natural); for me TT should be designed around adding as little to the sound as possible. 301 or Lenco L75 don't do that. My friend had one of the 301's by Steve Dobbins. I would love either as a secondary TT with appropriate vintage cartridge.

 

Hvbias,

Did you get to hear the Basis table with the newer Super 9 arm? I am a little bit interested in that arm, although it is WAY up there in price. I have not had a chance to hear that arm myself. I am quite lazy, so an arm upgrade that means a drop-in replacement for my Vector arm would be a big plus.

 

Ok not trying to be facetious Brian, but do you think your ideal turntable exists?

Did you not factor in the aesthetics of the Brinkmann when you purchased it, seen as it is (for the most of us) a rather obscene amount of money?

 

Is it just me or is this couch a little close to those huge speakers?

 

A TT is only one component of a vinyl playback system. They all have to work together to produce sound. So unless you already know what the arm, cartridge and phono stage sound like, and can verify correct VTA, SRA, offset, etc in the setup, and you know how the system sounds on CD (speakers, amp, preamp, cables, etc.) you will never be able to isolate the TT sound from the rest.

In fact, IMO, the phono stage determines most of the sound of a vinyl playback system. That and its interaction with the cartridge.