How important is a phono stage for sound quality?

In the end, what you get is always equal to the lowest common denominator.

Regards

 

Of course, a good phono stage is important for quality.

With the Monacor, priced where it is at, no harm in giving it a try.

The other phono stages, that you had mentioned in your original post, are also good phono stages.

But, to change out your MF for one of them, would be a parallel move at best and in the end, nothing will be accomplished.

No point in doing a lateral swap. If you want improvements, from your MF, you will need to take things to a higher level and that means, a more expensive phono stage than you already have.

Best to hold on to your MF, at least for now.

 

Improvements in phono stages are mostly to do with power regulation and power supplies providing you have a correctly designed RIAA circuit off sufficient component quality. I have added the second power supply upgrade to my NVA Phono 2 and the improvement is significant and surprising in scale. I think this relatively cheap and simple stage beats any valve based product I have heard and has no solid state grain whatsoever. The only downside is positioning the phono stage box relative to the power supplies or other components as it is an unshielded perspex box. NVA tries to eliminate any steel down to glued casing rather than screws. Cases can be opened for service as the glue is a type that does not go completely hard.

 

How does that work?

 

While the Monacor is very quiet it has two issues. Firstly not enough gain with a passive pre unless you have a very high output cartridge. With approx 4.5 mV I am almost 3/4 on dial for adequate volume. Secondly the switch mode p.s. does affect the power. There is a slight buzz through the stage at high volume while it has the effect of slightly congesting sound of other sources (admittedly very revealing and high quality). However this does reinforce my doubts about switch mode supplies in audio applications. I suppose at under £30 you can't complain. I think it could be used as basis for a DIY project incorporating a serious large toroidal supply. The jack plug looks like a mini headphone type so does not accommodate standard power supplies unless modified.

 

You go and upgrade to an excellent tone arm and super duper cart, then you hook up your turntable to a crappy pre-amp with an crappy interconnect.
If you were after the mathematics, I am sorry. I only meant it in a relative terms and as a figure of speech.

Regards

 

As previously stated; i gave the Monacor a go. It was was fine but lacked the "punch" of the MFs and gave a loud pop when starting the turntable. It was however very sweet and neutral and had it not "popped" on start up i might have kept it. It is a complete bargain and well worth a punt. I suspect my MFs might be more coloured and its that what i like. As you say i will be sticking with what i have.

 

I have recently tried 4 different phono stages. My built-in Marantz with a 2M Bronze, then a Phonomena II+ with the Bronze. The Phono added tighter, deeper bass and cleared up the highs of a haze. I upgraded to a Benz Micro Wood SL cart and kept the Phonomena. With that cart and a Lyra Delos, I tried two much more higher-ended phono preamps and neither one sounded as good in my system as the Phonomena. One was 5x the cost. They both were far too treble-heavy for my tastes. So they aren't just about RIAA accuracy. They do have their own sound signatures - good or bad. As a side note, when I bought the expensive phono preamp to try it in-home, the dealer said the common thought is to buy a preamp that is equal to the cost of your cartridge. So a $3k phono stage is good up to, say a Kleos. Probably just salesman talk. I disagree with that being as my Phonomena was a whopping $750 and sounds fantastic with carts around 3x it's cost. YMMV.

 

But it will always be better sound wise to upgrade a component, never mind which one.

 

IME a quality phono stage will hugely improve the sound and is just as important as the cartridge itself.

 

I really feel sorry for the folks who get that turntable with the cheap cart on it, and built-in phono stage, and wonder why the records sound just "o.k."...
I told a guy he should spend another hundred or so for a cart upgrade, and he was kind of surprised.

 

I had a different experience when upgrading from a Phonomena to my current Manley Chinook. It was an obvious difference in SQ, using the same cartridge.

 

I imagine it would be. All the preamps I've tried, were SS. I may consider a tubed preamp at some point. But for now, I am content.

 

A Croft micro/ Vitale/basic 25
Is a pure valve pre amp with a
Liquid sound that only tubes can
Provide and is a serious
Alternative!

 

In absolute terms I think yes. For me at least, it's always been about the relative impact of a new component to the rest of my audio chain. Being concious of the potential diminishing returns. Different people have different approaches for upgrading their systems. I tend to completely overhaul mine, every 7 years with smaller (tube, cable etc) upgrades in-between.

Regards

 

DirectX
No .sorry to answer before. Its faultless. I have tried to replace it . I run 2 systems and use a Croft in the other , sounds much the same, its cheap but absolutely brilliant.
When you consider that you are amplifying fron 3 mv approx
To line level which is less than a volt transistor count is low
Current drain neglible where does the cost come into it ?

 

It makes a pretty big difference when comparing a stand alone unit to say an internal unit, assuming that is what the OP is asking. If we are just talking stand alone vs stand alone then yea higher end usually wins out.....better electronics and PSU.

There are other factors to consider like cable capacitance and resistance, so it is like a mini system you are trying to match for best synergy. Higher end units will get you better dynamics and higher resolution and better PSU will decrease/lower the noise floor which allows more music to come thru and for sure a battery powered unit will probably be the best option for lowering the noise floor.

 

I have been running my PS Audio GCPH Phono directly into my power amp for about 6 months, utilizing the XLR outs (and the Gain control as an ersatz Volume knob).

Couldn't be happier with the performance. Removing the Pre-Amp (and everything else) from my system has added a lot of punch and presence (immediacy) to vinyl playback.

The improvement in pacing is astounding. And you can listen for days and days without any sort of fatigue.

I have had a couple Audio Industry friends visit over the Summer and it was hard to get them out of the sweet spot and into the boat!

Both kept saying,"How are you getting that sound out of these components?".

 

I have been using a Hagerman Bugle with matching power supply and love the pure sound. Pitch black backround.
(DL-110 cart) - Thought about trying tubes, but I don't want a reverb or hollow sound added to my vinyl playback.

 

Hi,
Concerning the phono amp discussion, does it matter what kind of integrated amp I’ve got or is it the phono amp that’s matter? Ie, would a better integrated amp do a better job togheter with the same phono amp than a cheaper amp would do? I hope you understands my question here...

Is it a throw away of money to buy a hi end integrated amp or is the integrated amp also important part of the chain in relation to whatever phono amp I’ve choose?
Regards,
Joakim

 

And have anyone tried Rega’s Aria phono amp? What’s your opinion on this amp?
/Joakim

 

My phono stage works amazingly with the Soundsmith Hyperion. It makes a huge difference with an unbelievable low noise floor. Phono stage is on the left.

 

They both matter. In general you would like your integrated amp to be as silent as possible and able to deliver good detail. This will allow a better analog stage to shine. More specifically your integrated should be well matched to your speakers while the phono preamp should be well matched to your cartridge.

 

Thanks! Very much appreciated info!
/Joakim