How much do you think needs to be put into Speakers of a Stereo system?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by STBob, Aug 19, 2014.

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  1. STBob

    STBob Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan
    I have been having fun the past few months playing around with stereo gear. I was thinking if someone were to ask me what percentage they should spend on what when setting up a new vinyl system what would I tell them? I not talking a awesome system but a start up system.

    For me
    - Speakers - 50 percent total cost
    - Amp - Get a used one, many to pick from. Not a huge difference in sound.
    - TT - again don't need to spend a ton, try to find old Technics used
    - CD - Teac CP 650 for bang for the buck, Marantz would be next step up for 3x cost.

    Speakers seem to be the one item that gives a WOW. I listened to many amplifiers and hmm not that big of a difference. Cartridges, hmm once you get past 100.00 the changes are not all the great for the additional money.

    Once you get good speakers the person can start to tweak the other stuff one a time for incremental improved sound.
     
  2. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Room.....always the room should at least be considered. Speakers and the room they are in work together as a system. One is dependant on the other for how they sound. A bad room can destroy the sound of good speakers. I would factor in this to your plans.
     
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  3. ElizabethH

    ElizabethH Forum Resident

    Location:
    SE Wisconsin,USA
    I am on the far side of cost ratios. I have a $5K amp, a $5K preamp, and a pair of $5K speakers.
    Magnepan 3.6s .My retail system would be near $50K, including power conditioners, cables etc...

    For people at the lower end of money spent i agree the 50% on speakers is a fair idea.
    For folks in my price bracket, spend whatever makes you happy. Someone with my amp and pre might also spend $5k on speakers, or $20K. Whatever turns them on.
    If I go to magnepan 20.7 ($15K) then I would be closer to the money split suggested. (I would not change amps at all)
     
  4. STBob

    STBob Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan
    Agreed, but I am not sure how to factor that in for someone. I mean I have 6 sets of speakers and two of them are not really good. No matter where I put those in the house they sound bad. On my Kefs and I can put them anywhere and will always crush the set of poor performers.

    I mean I am not sure what situation would make a bad pair of speakers sound better than a really good pair given they were used in the same home. So that part is important but not sure how to factor it in.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
  5. STBob

    STBob Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan
    Hehe, yea you don't count in this :) You are in the arena where looks, sound, build quality all come into play. And those Mags, yea very NICE!!!

    I'm talking about a cheap set up to get people in the game with decent audio quality. Point of diminishing returns comes into play at some point. And I do not think it is a waste for people to spend 20k on a system if they want. But the little guy can come close enough in perforance for much less. Part of the fun is upgrading, I am not at your point yet but I can see myself getting some of those magnaplaners in the future, I always liked them.
     
  6. bhazen

    bhazen I Am The Walrus

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    Spend the most on source; then amp & speakers.

    Good source + cheap speakers will beat crap source + great (i.e., revealing) speakers.
     
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  7. GuildX700

    GuildX700 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Speakers $$$ %, heck let's just do it up right for the tight budget folks! Those with money don't care about the % on each item.

    Best cheap system with current available items available price IMO:

    CD player, Onkyo CD7030, $139 + Teac UD-H01 DAC, $199

    Yamaha R-S700BL $399 Full function stereo receiver, 2 zone, I pod dock port, Sirius ready, great phono input & good tuner.

    Pioneer SP-FS52-LR Andrew Jones Designed Floor standing Loudspeaker pair $250.

    For less than $990 total you can have a serious taste of high end. I have all of these components in a system. Sounds very good for under $1k.

    For adding a turntable, pick what you want, but IMO used is a crap shoot so beware. New, there's a wide selection at reasonably low prices. My friend just got a PRO-JECT - DEBUT CARBON for under $400 with cartridge and he loves it.
     
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  8. Rodney Toady

    Rodney Toady Waste of cyberspace

    Location:
    Finland
    Money? Wouldn't know about that...

    Music? As much as possible...
     
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  9. Ash76

    Ash76 Wait actually yeah no

    Yeah, this site tends to make money scarce!
     
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  10. Jtycho

    Jtycho Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    It depends. You could have $50k in equipment and it wouldn't be embarrassed by $5k Harbeth's.
     
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  11. norman_frappe

    norman_frappe Forum Resident

    I have spent between 70-80% of my budget on speakers in the past. Other than the room, proper set up and the recordings you play the speakers will determine the vast majority of the sound. Especially at budget levels it makes great sense to spend the bulk of your money on the speakers. The rest of the stuff will not have as great an impact on the sound. Transparent, cheap watts can be had easily so it makes little sense to obsess about amps. Most budget cd players and dac's sound great. Turntables if you are into vinyl can be tricky, going too cheap here can be disastrous. But good speakers are a must have and they will set you back more than the other stuff unless you can find a used pair or some other bargain which are out there.
     
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  12. vinylman

    vinylman Senior Member

    Location:
    Leeds, U.K.
    When I bought my amp and speakers in 1997, I INTENDED paying no more than £250 for the latter. My amp cost me £360 (should have been around £430). I went to the shop with the plan of paying £300 for an amp, £250 for the speakers and with the remainder of my £1,000 I was going to go on a rather large CD frenzy. However, when I asked to hear a gorgeous-looking pair that were on the floor (Epos ES 12 standmounts), I was told that they were £500. Within ten minutes of listening, the £250 speaker budget went out of the window, as did the CD frenzy. You can have all the percentages worked out beforehand, but if something grabs you....................
     
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  13. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    On a vinyl system I'd stay you'd be better off putting the vast bulk of your money into the the table and arm.

    The difference between a really good high end table that properly addresses spurious resonances, damp ringing, isolates from the environment, etc and a cheap used Japanese table of 30 years ago can be enormous, almost like the difference between formats. I'd say if you're not going to get a great vinyl deck and take appropriate steps to set it up and keep it isolated, then just skip vinyl altogether, you'll get better sound out of cheap digital. Vinyl is also an area where the kind of improvement that matter -- isolation from motor vibration and motor EMF radiation, mass and rigidity, isolation from environment -- tend to add to the cost vs. something like a CD player, so rarely if ever do you find a cheap table that does what needs doing.

    Live with a cheap pair of speakers like some little Wharfdales or something, and some inexpensive electronics like a used NAD integrated or something until you can upgrade 'em, but go spend $2,500 or something on turntable and arm and cart get something that will actually let you hear what everyone says about vinyl. Also cartridges make an enormous difference. The difference between an entry level cart and a highly resolving one with flatter frequency response, greater channel separation, greater channel balance, can be enormous.

    I'm not saying the speakers aren't important -- transducers generally are where the grossest departures from neutrality occur and where you can get the most change in your system by changing a component, so, speakers, phono carts, etc. But decent vinyl playback in my experience pretty much can't be had on the cheap. It's just too hard to do well, it's like building a sensitive seismic measuring device that can do it's job in a room full of other vibrations, most decks do it pretty poorly. If you want to get the best sound at a real beer budget price, just skip vinyl.

    You'll wind up with much better sound out of your vinyl with say, a VPI Scout and a Nagaoka MP300 into a little NAD 316BEE and a pair of Wharfdale Diamond 10.1's than you will with a cheap turntable and cheap electronics into a pair of pricey speakers, in my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
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  14. Colin M

    Colin M Forum Resident

    About 40W :shh:
     
  15. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    LOL
     
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  16. Although I'm a "source first" guy, I've actually spent much more money on my speakers and probably somewhere in the vicinity of 60% of my system cost. I personally don't believe in picking up a cheap used TT as they are usually more trouble than they're worth. I'm a little more indifferent about a digital source as I rarely play CD/SACD on my main rig. On room treatments I'd say...yes, you need to address it or at least consider it not too far down the road. However, I've been in rooms without them and they sounded just fine. A lot has to do with what is already present in the room. Book cases are great diffusers. Heavy treated drapes, tall plants in corners, throw rugs, large fabric-covered couches and pillows will all help to improve sound.
     
  17. MonkeyMan

    MonkeyMan A man who dreams he is a butterfly?

    I'd recommend buying a great set of speakers that are easy to drive and that are known for scaling well. The Vandersteen 1C is a good example, and I know it well. You can drive them with a cheap receiver and as you upgrade amplification, they will sound even better.
     
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  18. Shiver

    Shiver Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Every component I've ever 'upgraded' (ie more expensive, and better by perception - if arguably just different), or tried out, has had its own tangible effect - including CDPs, amps, turntables, catridges; but I've never noticed so much absolute change in sonic output as when swapping speakers around. So I get the OP's point.

    Again just my experience.
     
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  19. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Nearly all of us, I think it's fair to assume, began with a non-awesome "start up system". One thing I've learned over the years is not to get so attached to a particular viewpoint established so early on in the experience curve.

    It may be true, for example, that SS pre-amps and amps at under $1,000 don't vary too much in sound quality, but I wouldn't recommend SS at that price point anyhow. Tube offers more bang for the buck in pre-amps at least. Are there entry level tube integrated? That's what I'd look into for "start up" amplification.

    I'd say that speakers, digital front end (I don't know turntables), pre-amp, speaker cables/interconnects, power cords and power conditioning can all offer "WOW". I'd budget to address everything properly and get the room decent with at least proper speaker positioning.
     
  20. STBob

    STBob Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan
    So you have nothing to add?
     
  21. Tyler Eaves

    Tyler Eaves Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greenville, NC
    I would much rather have a $20 generic DVD player (as transport) into a $150-200 DAC then a $200 CD player, as that also opens up the realm of PC-as-source, as well as DVD audio.

    Also: Technics = overrated and overpriced in the current market. Any you find going for less than an RP-1 or Carbon Debut or similar (which are, imo, better, or at least far more upgradeable tables) is gonna be trashed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
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  22. csgreene

    csgreene Forum Resident

    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    When I worked at a high end store almost 40 years ago, I remember the owner, an audio engineer, was very much a speakers first kinda guy. I've felt that way, based on personal experience since. Ironically, the power sources in my three systems exceeded the cost of the speakers in each. But I feel speakers and where placed will have the largest impact on overall sound than the power source or CD/TT. I'll never know the sound of a multi thousand dollar TT set-up because I've never bought into the whole vinyl reigns supreme argument. I've been happy with what I guess are crappy Japanese turntables since I bought them back in the day.

    The key to the best sound, IMO, is the best speakers you can afford and the best placement of them in the room you have. Room treatments can help tremendously but I'd guess many folks don't have the option to do them if they system is in a family living space.

    When we auditioned gear back in the day, I always heard the most difference in speakers, not amps. I feel fortunate that I don't possess the golden ears that some guys seem to think they do.
     
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  23. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"

    It always changes over the years as certain technologies improve or are the new norm.
    In general 35% on speakers and cables, 30% on source(one source in this case) 20% on amplification. Room acoustics and accesories take up the rest.
    Ofcourse I rarely follow my own rules... John M.
     
  24. STBob

    STBob Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan
    So are you suggesting something like this? :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. STBob

    STBob Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Michigan
    From what I've read you are probably correct. I read some stuff a guy named Bob Carver did back in the 70s. He challenged a stereo magazine crew in blind tests to pick out a $10,000 amplifier vs his home made clone of it (under 500.00). They failed the test. Of course none were to happy with Mr. Carver and I think they panned his products which ended up in a lawsuit.
     
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