How much $ for a "vinyl equivalent" sounding DAC?

Why would we assume that artists would want their music played on a clinical sounding system?

Are we going to further suppose they'd get upset with us if we don't?

I'd bet musicians would love to hear their music played through a holographic, sounds-like-music system then a pair of studio monitors that have been granted the blessing of "neutral".

 

Exactly! I think many on this forum would agree that the inherent inaccuracies of tube amps and vinyl are what makes them sound so 'good'. 100% accuracy may be on the less desirable end of things. I, personally, like my steaks cooked, not raw.

I just heard my 1st Cowboy Junkies cd. Her voice didn't sound natural at all. There is a slight echo and a little sibilance. She wouldn't sound that way if she was in the room, but it sounded very good to me. Maybe a more accurate system wouldn't sound as good.

So accurate may sound less appealing, and as a result, some DAC manufacturers are purposely making their stuff inaccurate by adding 'tube simulators' or 'vinyl simulators' to smooth off peaks.....

 

Let's get something straight here folks - there are no "inaccurate DACs". Every single DAC processes every single bit. DACs that actually smudged detail would never sell.

 

I think this thread is turning into another digital vs analog thread, and I'm sure we can all agree that the world doesn't need another one of those. I think the OP made it clear that he considers vinyl to sound better than digital, and since this is his opinion, it only makes sense to post in this thread if you buy into his way of seeing things.

 

I think it is also safe to assume that not all DACs will sound the same either. So to say to just pick one that is ruler flat and call it a day is also not really helpful.

I haven't had much to say because I haven't gone through a bunch of DACs, but I'm interested in reading the results of those who have found something they like and why.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. If every DAC converted the same series of digital data to the exact same sound, they would all sound alike.

 

You said that CDs have an inherent hardness and edginess. They don't. A CD has no sound at all. If you believe that you are hearing that then I certainly will dismiss it thank you as it's your own expectation bias ignoring the reality of a technology that you clearly don't understand.

Aha! I believe we have a candidate definition for the "what makes a person an audiophile" thread

 

Well, for starters, most of them do sound awfully similar - differences tend to be stylistic tweaks in the analog output stages. What I'm saying is, in regards to qualifying how "accurate" DACs are, that no modern DAC omits information. Every bit in the recording is captured. "Accuracy" in this context becomes a measure of how flat the frequency response is. This might be obvious and perhaps I'm being pedantic, but I wanted to clear this up as I think some people are picturing these syrupy sounding tube DACs that just truncate vast ranges of audible frequencies to achieve a certain sound. There are no products like this that I'm aware of, and if they existed nobody would buy them.

 

Fully agree--the OP asked how much dough it would take to get something akin to what he experiences with vinyl. So that means that the thread should be about how to achieve that. To contribute meaningfully, you must see somewhat along the same lines as the OP. If your opinion is that CD's don't have any sound signature, and that vinyl sounds poorer than digital, then you're not contributing to getting the OP any nearer an answer to his question.

 

Thanks for the laugh.

That confirms the inherent ignorance you struggle with in all aspects of audio.

You must make a lot of friends with that holier-than-thou attitude of yours.

 

I've nixed the idea of the Sony HAP-Z1es player because I really want to use my Marantz SA8005 as a CD transport and feed the new DAC, as well as feeding other sources to the DAC.

Looking for ~ $2K DAC (no headphone amp or volume control needed) that would be an obvious upgrade to the sound of the DAC in my Marantz player and have at least (2) optical inputs.

 

I wish there were more double-duty DAC/ADC's around.

 

I'll tell you, this kills so many options right off the bat, but I'm with you. I think traditionally, DAC designers approach inputs as "we're including 1 each of usb/coax/optical to make sure it will work with any single transport you might have", where as many of us need them to approach it more like preamp inputs for multiple sources.

They do make boxes that convert optical and coax to vice-versa FWIW.

 

Let me see if I understand: if I'm ignorant of how a particular technology works, then I have to dismiss what my senses perceive coming out of that particular technology? Hmm. Interesting perspective. Occult-like. So I must learn to recognise the agreed upon consensus, and disbelieve what I hear and see, let alone what I prefer.

It won't be easy.

I dare say it won't be worth it, either.

 

Yeah. I can't explain how a light bulb works, but yet they keep me from bumping into walls all the same. Life is full of surprises, I suppose.

 

I'm highly under-qualified here. But what's to be the input to the DAC? My system's cheap-ish, no doubt. But since I have both a fair number of CDs and records, I've been stepping up reproduction for both. The DAC + circuits in the Emotiva ERC-3 CD player I lately replaced the old Onkyo C-7030 with has a tone very close to vinyl, with a bit more clarity. But that last is probably because my turntable is only an Audio-Technica AT-LP-120 with a Grado Green cart, through a Hagerman Bugle2 -- and then in either case through an Onkyo TX-NR828 into a motley assortment of speakers. Despite the compromises in this setup, some CDs sound very, very good; and so does some vinyl. The vinyl tends to blur the sounds together a bit -- no doubt in part from tonearm resonances and the like. But I'm hearing all sorts of details and tonalities that weren't apparent with the prior CD player, or before I added the Hagerman phono pre-amp. The best CDs sound very much like being there live; and the best vinyl is damn pleasing despite or even because of the slight blurring, as the instruments are still distinct -- the blurring just harmonizes them slightly more. On the other hand, despite not liking the Onkyo 828's own DAC for CDs -- even the 7030's DAC had a slight edge there (or really, was smoother) -- it's passably good for Pandora, where half the sound's missing anyway -- works fine for background music. I have seen claims elsewhere that Emotiva's stand-alone DACs are similar sounding to the output from their CD player. My guess, since those are also $500, is that you can do pretty well with a DAC at that price point.

 

I don't put any stock whatsoever in that guy's ramblings. I'm on multiple msg boards, all for different interests of mine and blowhards like these are pretty much standard fare. I just enjoy putting them in their place and then move on. No time to put up with insecurities and Internet posturing like that. Besides, it's no use arguing with somebody with a strong opinion based on unproven absolutes, especially when dealing with subjective topics such as art or in this case, sound.

My wife's listening skills are mediocre at best and she certainly wasn't happy about the expensive vinyl setup I brought into the house and even she stopped in her tracks when she heard the same mastered material being spun. Considering this, I believe her reaction and approval after the fact carries much more weight insofar as testimony for the inherent pleasing unique sonic characteristics of vinyl.

 

Interesting. So what same mastered material did you use to test? (I don't have too many digital/vinyl doubles with the same mastering) And what were the dac/cd player and vinyl setup you used?

 

I PM'ed you as I wish to keep this thread on topic.

 

OP, you may like the sound of the old TDA1541 chip. No longer made but many of the CD players/DACs that used them are still coveted today for their relative natural sound.

 

Do You notice something odd here.

 

I liked the bit where he mentioned his expensive vinyl setup. Some people just walk right into it.

 

The Benchmark DAC3 has two optical inputs, although it also has a headphone amp and volume control.
The Schiit Yggdrasil has only one optical input, but it has gotten some stellar reviews.

 

Thank you. I believe I can live with one optical input- I can plug my other source into my CD player and pass it through to the new DAC.

 

thanks- figured a way to make one optical input work.