How risky is shipping vinyl in the summer?

Bloody hell, this forum is getting ridiculous.
95% of the records I buy are mailed, the percentage of warped ones is so small I never even think about it. And I buy lots off of Ebay sellers.
Don't worry about it.

 

Nothing nefarious intended; only a simple observation. Truly wondering about the melting point of vinyl, and if direct or indirect exposure to heat (whatever the source) could cause LP warping? As simple as that.

But, I also remember reading a Stereophile article, by J. Gordon Holt, from years ago, where Mr. Holt recommended only playing one side of an LP at a time, reflecting the need to wait before playing Side B. That vinyl was in actuality a liquid, and not a solid, and therefore easily damaged. The article stated that too much playing at one sitting was destructive to the album. So, as such, maybe an album is easily warped after all, regardless of the manufacturing processes, and the temperatures involved?

 

I read so many varying opinions on these topics it makes my head spin! (but that's the web these days, no?) Interesting the comments from Holt.... we can't discount his level of experience!!!!

I will say as someone who has bought in upwards of 250 new LP's over the last 18 months, and have had issues with probably 20% of them, I for one am searching for a common thread root cause. Is it storage? Sitting on a dock? Poor QC? Where I live? Long shipping distances? All of the above? I am not 100% certain, I can only piece together bits and pieces of my own experience, and offer up other anecdotal evidence of what heat and storage can do, plus other examples. I do have a good deal of data though as I <to my wife's chagrin at time> have purchased many LP's from many different sources over the last two years!

Note that I have much less of a problem when I decide to spend up for the audiophile pressings as opposed to the more mainstream $20 - $30 pressings (which is probably 1 out of 30, I just can't afford all audiophile pressings). So maybe there is one factor... you get what you pay for. Again, there is probably an all of the above factor, and I do suspect QC of newer pressings is one big factor.

Note there is a LONG thread in the archives from a few months back on warped vinyl -- go hunt it down, assuming it did not get removed. In there, the dichotomy of responses was intriguing.... but again, it's the web, and there are always different motivations like experience, volume, agenda....

Sorry OP if I have drifted too far of topic. Yes Virginia, IMHO do think that LP's can get warped from heat, pressure --- whether or not those variables come into play enough during shipping, well, clearly it is a debatable topic and there are different opinions.

 

I get records in all the time. It's about 101 F here, 104+ real feel and not peak heat--we hit that a few weeks ago with 114F (real not 'feel').
One record came in with a big iridescent label that said "Keep Away from HEAT."
It was like an oven on the front porch, I'm sure the driver's truck was cosy, and the 18 wheeler before that. No problems, but there's enough that could go wrong anyway using the mail that, for a few valuable records, I told my friend to hold off shipping them until the heat breaks. Probably just being over cautious.
If packed well, I doubt these temps would damage a record, but who knows? If it sat in direct sunlight on a 100+ degree day, and was under pressure at an angle, could be a problem, no?
This person says, "don't leave your LP in the car": Hot Stuff: Will The Texas Heat Melt Your Vinyl LPs?

 

Yeah, everyone's experiences should be just like yours, and if they are not dish out insults, and discredit others. Nice.

Good for you, you should go to Vegas since your luck is so good. Not my experience. Nor the experience of many on another long thread on the topic. I don't doubt when I read many others experiencing the problems I've had, but wonder the motivation, or how many LP's they buy, when they have no issues like you.

No need to make fun of or discredit others though because their experiences are different than yours. Would have expected more from someone on the forum for 13 years (EDIT 16 years. Wow). Consider being tolerant of others experiences, and not assume everyone has the same as yours.

 

If a record flattener can flatten a record at 130 degrees, the summer heat can warp it too.

 

Nashville, Tennessee, USA.
August = HOT !!!
Wouldn't ya know it, a delivery of TWO albums shows up on the one day I'm actually going out to run errands, and keep an appointment ( this was a week ago today ).
The morning of the delivery I see a section has been added where I can leave my carrier a message !?!?
I type in please hide behind porch furniture, out of direct sunlight, and view of the street ( we have pkg.thieves here )
That afternoon, I arrived home to find my pkg. tucked neatly behind the chaise lounge.


What I have found weird is, how I can cut a mailer open, and actually feel the heat rise and touch the skin on my face, yet the records are still okay.
Warm to the touch...but okay.

 

Most of record warp already happens at pressing plants. The probability of record warp due to the outside temperature during the transport (unless severely mishandled) would probably be very low. There's more chance of record being warped by the weight of other packages stacked up on top of it.

 

Good news! The sun god spared my Amazon delivery! No warping on all three
of the following:

 

I don't recall where, but I once saw a decent argument for "resting" the vinyl. Whatever I was reading was suggesting that you not play the same side over and over because the friction generates heat. I guess I wouldn't mind waiting a day before playing a rare or valuable record again. As my wife would remind me, I have plenty of things to listen to. I am sure I am not alone in that

 

You already have lots of responses but I'll kick in: I have had several albums shipped to me this summer and I did consider the heat effect but fortunately all have arrived safe and sound. Some even sat in the heat on my porch for longer than I would have liked and were still fine.

 

I believe this too.

Going back to the thread title - I don't think it is "risky" to have LP's shipped in the summer, although something happening heat related is entirely possible. Stacking / pressure by the shipper is possible too, probably more, but not seasonal!

My tirade earlier was merely to prove that heat CAN damage an LP, and that LP's QC is not that high in the first place, so if you got one in the summer, you really wouldn't know how it got warped. There are lots of warped ones being made....

 

The old Dynaflex records were good for shipping... you could roll them up and ship them in a tube!...

 

Realize that even your local stores get their vinyl shipped to them either USPS or UPS - although in larger boxes with multiple items (more than just a few LPs in many cases). Regardless, those same boxes that go to your stores sit on delivery docks, in hot UPS and USPS trucks, etc during the hot months - so what is the difference between ordering a record delivered to your house or buying one at a store?

The only thing I can say is that the boxes that are delivered to stores don't generally sit outside and are delivered directly into the store at delivery time.

I do purchase vinyl both on-line and in-store, and 98% of the time, even during intense heat waves, I generally don't get warped records if they are packed correctly for shipping.

So don't fool yourselves thinking that buying in a store (although preferable in some ways to keep brick and mortar independent music stores in business) is really any different regarding shipping and heat than having some records delivered directly to your home.

 

I wonder if you could really heat a record significantly by just playing it over and over. Sure friction causes heat. But it takes 20 minutes to play one side, and I suppose vinyl does not conduct heat very well, so wouldn't heat just be generated where the needle is and then cool off again, without spreading the heat inside the record? But maybe I'm all wrong, what to I know about thermodynamics? Maybe it takes longer too cool because it's a bad conductor of heat.

I wonder if the stylus gets hot.

 

Being in HOT California, I have had some problems receiving vinyl records. Much of the problem stems from the idiots delivering them and leaving them in direct sunlight. I myself, buying many records from Amazon, they are often shipped from North Las Vegas, NV and if you think California is hot. Others come from Kentucky and probably shipped directly from a one-stop, near an Amazon warehouse, with Amazon KY return address on it. Other places I buy from, like Pop Market, also have the records direct-shipped from a cone-stop in KY.
Here is the problem, warped records. I had to return the entire shipment of Michael Nesmith(Monkees) LP's that I bought from Pop Market because they were all warped, with one being impossible to play.
If you receive a record in the mail, and it is obviously warm to the touch, bring it in and let it cool down to at least room temperature before opening it. The records usually come in dedicated record boxes so they are somewhat tightly boxed. If the album is shrink wrapped, that is another way the record is held in shape. Heavier vinyl LP's, like 180g, have less of a shipping problem where their problem stems from the manufacturer. Records which are shipped directly from the one-stop in KY come in carboard sandwiches and though extremely tightly packed, those are the ones I have the most problems with. As for the record sellers who pack and ship their records themselves, Soundstage Direct does a good job. Acoustic Sounds is one of the worst. The packages I've received from them, it's like the albums were laid on a long piece of cardboard are just folded over and over again. I try to avoid dealing with Acoustic Sounds and especially their QRP pressed records. They tend to put more effort into creating the album covers than pressing the records. Many I've received have been off-center, eventhough they are using the same master discs made and originally used by RTI.
A few minutes ago, I just received an LP from Amazon and it was actually cold to the touch. We've had some cool mornings here lately, but the record did come from North Las Veagas, NV.

 

I live in the furnace that is phoenix and I don't order any records between May and October delivered to my metal mailbox that gets direct sun on the outside from 3-6PM. It was pretty cool today, only 102. But its normally hotter than that. I did place an order from Acoustic sounds and was pretty impressed that they put a huge label on the outside saying "do not leave in the heat or direct sunlight." So the package that would have normally been left on my door was left at my apartment office which I really appreciated. Depends where you live, but in Phoenix where it gets to 150 degrees in your car parked in the sunlight every day for 5 months, records are very susceptible to warping.

 

I don't think they will be damaged during the shipping process. But if they are left on your door step in the sun. Well then. You just might have a warping problem. I've had records warp in 30 minutes in my car here. Fortunately that was in 1993 when every record was like 2 bucks.

 

Well said. This is the reality.... good summary of my thoughts here too.

So "risky"? Well, risk is supplemented with probability - so maybe the risk is not high. But possible? Entirely.

 

This, this is the problem. A package of records left on a front porch in direct sunlight doesn’t have a good chance.

 

If the record is packaged between two stiffeners, and in a white mailer, the chance for warpage will be almost none under normal (non-climate controlled) shipping conditions. Even if subjected to 130F the record will not warp when packed correctly. I've shipped numerous records and was worried about warping, not one complaint nor return. That's not to say a hot tarmac hot enough to fry eggs, or delivery on a porch in direct sunlight are not a risk.. I am sure they are!

 

What if the concierge brings it in for you?

 

They're probably stored in a hot warehouse so I guess it's a roll of the dice.

 

Many warps happen at the factory. Records are inserted into jackets and tightly shrinkwrapped before they fully cool. A lot of warps happen these days because of this.

However, warps can also happen in transit. IME the longer the carrier has the package the more likely something is going to happen to it. That means I've sworn off USPS Media Mail for shipping records and prefer UPS or FedEx Ground when I can get it.

In large metro areas, some postal stations pack their trucks early and let the packages sit in the sun for several hours before the driver takes the delivery route. If your stop is one of the last on the route, don't be surprised if you have an issue with a warped album.

I had one LP that went from coast to coast via Media Mail and showed up as a vinyl taco. I've also had packages of old used records go halfway across the across the country via Priority Mail and all end up with mild to moderate warps. These packages aren't sitting on a porch either, because they go straight to a management office with A/C.

 

I believe this to be true. If a record is packed tightly and sandwiched between thick card board in side of the box, this should prevent warpage. I had a record delivered today that was in the direct sun for about 3 hours. I thought for sure it would be warped, but inside the record was sandwiched between two thick pieces of card board. The box and the record cover was pretty warm to the touch. The record was nice and flat when I opened up the package.