"How We’ll Forget John Lennon. Our culture has two types of forgetting." - thought provoking article

DON'T just read the first couple paragraphs -- the whole thing is quite interesting. AND don't overlook the comments at the bottom of the article too -- equally thought-provoking (a few of them, anyway)

>> Can Scientists Do TV? << (THIS really is the link, I swear. I think "Can Scientists Do TV?" is maybe the name of the blog or 'article category' that this article/interview falls under)

How We’ll Forget John Lennon
Our culture has two types of forgetting.
BY KEVIN BERGER
JANUARY 10, 2019

I would try and summarize the article, or cut-n-paste a few choice quotes -- but I cannot for the life of me figure out what to excerpt, without pasting fully half the article/interview. So let me quote two of the very first comments from the Organissimo thread where *I* first saw this article (to give credit where credit is due)...

>> If you're flying in and out of Liverpool, not jolly likely you'll forget him as the airport is named after him.

>> Right, "John Lennon" will be [remembered as] the name of an airport.

How We’ll Forget John Lennon << Organissimo forums thread, with this article/discussion

 

I gave a talk to my daughter's junior high English class a few years ago, and brought up Michael Jordan. Way more than half the class had no idea who he was (but they did know Lebron James, who is currently playing). I was pretty taken aback - Jordan, not too long ago, was perhaps the most famous athlete in the world. Being visible in this interconnected mass culture is necessary to sustain stardom or anything like fame - anything less, and you're swept aside.

 

Your "not too long ago" is 2003. Most of those kids weren't even born.

 

That is pretty weird, I grew up in the largely pre internet 90s and I knew all the players that came before... Bill Russell, Jerry West, Pete Maravich, Wilt Chamberlain, Dr. J, Kareem...

 

I got in trouble in another thread for musing that Elvis Presley would end up being remembered for his Christmas songs. So I'll just say

Sic transit gloria mundi.

 

Jordan retired in 2003 - let's see, I think this talk I gave was in 2008 or '09? Those kids were certainly born before then. (I've apparently reached the age where a decade or so is just "a few years", though ). They did, oddly enough, know some of the better-known soccer players from before their birth years, though. The fame churn is definitely speeding up.

 

I knew lots of baseball players whose careers went on prior to my growing up years, too - I'm sure a lot of them have been entirely forgotten, except by heavy-duty sports fans.

 

My thoughts after just reading the first few paragraphs are....

 

I'm 25 and I already feel this way. 2009 to me might as well have been last year in my mind.

 

That's the way I feel about 1999 or 1989. Damnation, it all just goes by so FAST.

 

I would say I feel the same from about 2003 onward for the most part.

 

I think that has largely happened already. "Hound Dog" or "Heartbreak Hotel" or "Don't Be Cruel" are largely forgotten, but "Blue Christmas" is on the perpetual holiday shuffle for lots of people. Something like that may eventually happen to Paul McCartney and "Wonderful Christmastime".

 

Music, pop culture, whatever your fancy... it's made for today. Enjoy it while your here. You'll have no use for it once you're gone. And, odds are, 99% of the rest of the world won't either. Time marches on. Elvis died one year before I was born. I'm now 40. I've never liked his music. I've never been to Graceland (even though I grew up in Nashville). My kids literally only know him as "the singer who died on a toilet." He will absolutely fade from memory in the next 40 years, which is sad only if the people who care about him today are still alive then. And they won't be.

The Beatles are the greatest of all time. We all know that. They will hang on a lot longer than most, but nothing lasts forever. And we'll all be dead as well when Paul and John are truly forgotten, so don't sweat it!

 

My argument for being on any pub trivia team

"I'm really good at sports, music, and history"

 

Nothing against Jordan but people are still listening to Lennon's music; absolutely nobody is watching old Michael Jordan basketball games. Sports and music could not be more different to me, in their essence. There are some well known sports moments, I suppose, but generally any game is as disposable as the next after it's over. Same thing with many of its stars after their careers are over. I think people have quite a different relationship with music, even today.

"We forget Elvis because the Beatles came up and we forget the Beatles because Led Zeppelin came and we forget Led Zeppelin because Metallica came up, and so forth."

What nonsense. I had seen that article before it was posted here and I think its author is way off, confused about a number of things. He mentions how the market for Elvis memorabilia dropped off a cliff when his fans started dying. If that were to happen to the Beatles, it would already be happening. And it isn't. Elvis was fantastic when at his best, and exceptionally influential for a generation, but he cannot be compared to the Beatles in terms of his lasting impact and the lasting power of their music and image.

I'm on Instagram, where I've connected with hundreds of people and we all post our vinyl collection. It's a very friendly and non-judgmental community of people. And there are tons of young girls and women who have entire accounts devoted to posting pictures of John Lennon (and others similar.) But there are none I've ever seen of Elvis. They may not be the majority but there are tons and tons of young Beatle fans out there. I've yet to meet anyone in my life under 25 today anywhere who is a huge Elvis fan. I think there was a huge shift when the Beatles came, in terms of a gradual perception that popular music can be lasting art.

 

Maybe there's a lesson there. Create a fab Xmas album and be remembered forever.

 

Bach isn't forgotten. You would hope with music studies in schools that key composers will not be forgotten. It is up to us.

 

It is certainly true that sports fame turns over more quickly than recorded music or film (there is still an audience for "Casablanca", while few people outside of hardcore sports fans would watch a film of a 1940s baseball game except for historical context).

 

Pretty good. Thanks, Rooster.

The idea of collective memory decay, and linking that to Elvis memorabilia, got me thinking about my various collections that may not be worth much very soon... as my generation of interested collectors and purchasers are getting older and leaving us.

 

I don't understand your point regarding Jordan... there is a huge difference between watching old games and being aware of who he is. And that is arguably the greatest basketball player of all time.

I know who Blind Lemon Jefferson is, I don't listen to him on the reg.

 

Saw some teenagers in a record store the other day looking for Kansas records. There's hope.

 

One thing that clearly shows me, though, is that huge fame sometimes doesn't last even a single generation, in terms of visibility...not in this day and age.

 

Stuff like this makes me hate Christmas... almost.

 

Do you agree with Postman that we’re all “amusing ourselves to death?”

this is really a key part of that. are we now more obsessed with hashtags and memes than anything real

 

That's the key: Pre-internet. There was a time, not so long ago, where if you had a real interest in something you had to go actively seek it out. Upon finding it, information, stories, facts, figures, the knowledge became precious to you. You soaked it in, never to forget it.

These days, however, it's bite-sized, single-serving info blasts and data dumps, about as impersonal as one can get, because it's too readily available, too fleeting and instantly gratifying. One day sex will be like this, too. Today's generation will remember human touch like we recall holding an actual book.

It's okay, though. I may be typing this all on a smart phone, but I'm going to touch as many people with my memories as I can before my memories die with me.