I bought a Denon DVD-2200 universal player tonight!

Change the subject of this thread!

I liked the Denon DVD-2200, but I couldn't help but wonder if I was missing something by not getting the '2900. It just kept eating away at me, as I felt like I was settling by going with the '2200. I am a nut for build quality, and in researching more and more the differences between the '2200 and '2900, I was lured by the better DACs and isolation of various circuit boards and the transport in the '2900. So, I exchanged the '2200 for the '2900 today. Let me tell you, the '2900 is a player!

Now, I don't have the two players here for a direct comparison, but I listened to a handful of DVD-Audio discs extensively on the '2200 while I had it. In listening to the same discs on the '2900 (e.g., Donald Fagen The Nightfly and Steely Dan Everything Must Go), I was immediately struck by the greater depth and clarity of the '2900. There is greater "air" and better bass. While the '2200 sounded clear in my experience, it did not convey the resolving power of the '2900. The '2900 is simply a better player. Oh, and the build quality of the '2900 is very nice -- comparable to the Denon DVD-3800 in my other system.

Part of me thinks that the '2900 is overkill since it is in my second system and I am not using it for video at this point. However, it is a killer audio component. Well done, Denon!

 

Keith - why didn't you just go for the Denon 5900 - as you know you will probably just upgrade to that anyway.

(I am just kidding. )

Hey as time goes on let us know how the 2900 fairs with not only DVD-A, but SACD. I have been happy with my 3800, but it does have some weird quirks that have me a bit baffled. That is the skipping or dropouts on DVD-Audio discs where the disc might have synced up lyric pages that automatically change. In addition, quite a few movies have very quick stutters/dropouts that last for a second or so, but when reversed and played past that point again don't show up. I really believe the Denon 3800 is very sensitive, moreso than most DVD players, to dirt and/or anomolies of discs that other players can read right through.

Not that I will change from the Denon 3800 to the Denon 2900 at all, but you never know.

 

Mike, I joked with my wife about getting the '5900 for my main system and moving the '3800 to the second system. That didn't go over too well.

I haven't played DVD-Audio discs with synched-up lyric pages too much on the '3800 and haven't observed dropouts there. I'll have to check it out some more. What is the build date on your '3800? I ask because it's been said that units built before October 2002 had some issues with freezing up. As I recall, that was limited to DVD-Video discs, though. My '3800 was built in December 2002, which supposedly means that freeze-up problems had been corrected.

 

Mike, here is something I have thought about. With DVD-Audio discs that have synched up lyric pages, have you tried playing them with the video section turned off? I just wonder if it were turned off, would that stop the dropouts? Maybe not, but it's worth a try.

 

You mean you actually checked with your wife BEFORE buying the new Denon. You are supposed to buy what you want and then sneak it in the house. Then when they wonder what that "new" box is in your system you tell them you couldn't resist as it was a bargain. They never have to know that you spent $3,000 on a DVD-Audio player for a second system.

Actually, I hear you. I always make sure my wife knows I am buying a new component and what the cost will be.

Regarding my 3800 build date, I was quite aware of the issues for units built before a certain date. My unit was actually built in March 2003 so it is fine with regard to the laser assembly. I even passed this by Denon Jeff when he was still participating on the AVS forum. He indicated I had a good laser assembly. To be honest, it doesn't really "freeze", as much as stutter very rarely on random DVDs - and I can probably count the times it has done so on two hands since I got my machine last April. That said, my RCA DVD-video player built in March 1997 has been going strong ever since, never a skip, stutter or anything else. The problem is it doesn't pass a DTS signal nor can it do DVD-Audio (it was one of the first DVD-video players sold when the format was introduced). My Technics DVD-A10, although in the box now and in storage, also never had a single problem with any disc I threw at it with the exception of the Boz Scaggs "Dig" DVD-Audio disc (which the Denon 3800 plays fine).

 

Mike, yeah, it's always better to sin and then beg for forgiveness later. Seriously though, I too always talk to my wife about component purchases before doing anything. She is actually rather supportive. She went with me to Tweeter a couple of weeks ago when I was primarily considering the DVD-2200 or '1200 for my second system. She preferred the '2200 immediately upon inspection. In her words, "The '1200 is a toy by comparison." My reaction was because she liked the more expensive component. We then took a look at the '2900, but since I wasn't seriously considering it at the time, she didn't give it much of a look. Once I started talking about the '2900 being the better component, her attitude was, "If the '2900 will make you happy, get it. Don't settle for the '2200." She was concerned that I would always regret going with the '2200 over the '2900. So, I had her in my corner on this one.

Glad to hear that you have one of the latest '3800s. I played parts of the Pet Sounds DVD-Audio disc on the '3800 a little while ago and observed no dropouts.

 

Keith, I have tried everything. I always play DVD-Audio discs with the video section turned off in Pure Direct Mode. It still drops out. I only seemed to find out since it occured to me that all the discs that do it have synced lyrics (since I always view the video content at least once for every DVD-Audio disc I own), and I then watched the lyrics on the offending discs and noticed the dropout occured at the exact time the page changed. But even with video off it still does it.

It only seems to do so on discs that have synced lyric pages, and only when I play the disc in DVD-A stereo (even if the bitstream may be LPCM instead of PPCM).

I posted on the AVS forum directly to Denon Jeff about this problem twice, and he said he was going to look into it, but then I never did get an answer. Then the Denon 3800 was discontinued (I guess to make room for the 2900 and 5900), so the focus moved to those players on the AVS forum. Then I noticed they closed the area where you can post to company reps like Denon Jeff, so I just dropped the issue entirely.

I found a "fix" for the problem anyway - even if it is a pain. As soon as I hear the dropout on a DVD-Audio disc, I stop the disc and go back to the beginning of the song I heard it on - then the player will play fine. It appears, at least with my Denon 3800, it takes time before the dropout will occur. Once I stop the player and start it again, even later into the disc it will play fine for a time before it does it again. The elapsed time it works fine before dropping out on a synced lyric page is about 20 minutes. I surmise, although I don't know, is that it may have something to do with the video buffer that this machine has to make layer changes, etc. go more smoothly. With these synced page changes it may fill up that video buffer since there are so many changes (as opposed to one layer change per movie) that when the buffer gets filled it begins to cause a "dropout/stutter" all around. Just guessing, but one I believe might be very plausible.

 

Hey, Keith, how do the 2200 and 2900 do on SACD?

 

Did you play the whole disc through or just skipped around? I ask, because "Pet Sounds" is one of the disc with synced lyric pages that causes a dropout on my Denon 3800. But in order to get it to dropout you have to play the disc from beginning to end without jumping around.

 

This is how I felt when I got my Marantz SA-8260 to do CDs and SACDs after using my Pioneer DV-45a to do SACD. Night and freakin' day!

 

Thats one reason why I'm willing to wait to get a 5900. It has the ultimate Denon build quality and the goods.

Because I need a DVD player that has DVI...the 5900 is my main choice at this time. I'm hoping the price will drop in the near future.

 

Keith, we're all impatiently tapping and what-not waiting for you to hatch a scheame to trade up to the 5900! Myself, I settled for a 2900 because if I just had to have better M/C SACD I could move my XA777 or 555 back into the theatre....where I do all my M/C listening. Me thinks the 777 serves me much better in my stereo system. The 2900 isn't a great stereo player, for SACD's, but it's very adequate for M/C, IMHO. It beats the hell out of the RP91 for DVD-A in my case. It actually plays Boz Scaggs' DIG! A feat seldom accomplished by Panasonic players!

I know you keith, just knowing that the 5900 weighs a few more kilos will make the future predictable...? ????!

 

Mike,

Thanks for the additional info. on synched lyrics pages and dropouts on the '3800. I will have to experiment more. When playing Pet Sounds, I did skip around the disc.

The good thing about an audio dropout is that it's quick and by the time you notice it, it's over and the music is playing again. Now, if you had dropouts several times in one song, that would be a real problem.


StyxCollector,

I have no doubt that moving from the '45A to the '8260 is a big jump. I'm sure you were stunned by the difference.


Rachael,

I have no real desire to move to the '5900. Sure, it's a wonderful component, but it is soooo overkill for me. I'd get it for the main system for DVD-Audio, and maybe SACD, depending on how it fared against the Sony SCD-777ES and 'C555ES in the same system (the '3800 would move to the second system). I wouldn't use the '5900 for video with my 27" tube TV, so I wouldn't benefit from the Faroudja deinterlacer and 12/216 video DACs. Perhaps when I get an HDTV someday, there will be a '5900mkII, '5901, etc. and I'll get that.

By the way, I know that the '5900 is a killer machine, but is there any word as to whether Denon will make even a better universal player to replace the '9000?

 

When I had the '2200, I observed an audio dropout on "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" on the Queen The Game DVD-Audio disc. This dropout coincided with a lyric page change. Well, I also observed the dropout on the '2900 when playing the disc from the beginning. Right after the dropout, I started the track over again and did not observe it -- the music played right through. The dropout was noticeable, but short and not overly distracting. So, my observations seem to be in keeping with others' with respect to DVD-Audio discs with synched up lyric pages. Oh well.

 

By the way, I wonder why these audio dropouts are only observed with the stereo DVD-Audio tracks. It's a bummer because I listen almost exclusively in stereo.

 

Keith be aware that this seems to occur with only some makes of DVD-Audio players. The Denon models seem to be the most susceptible. When I still had my Technics DVD-A10 hooked up to my system, the same discs that dropout at the synced lyric pages, played flawlessly on the Technics. I could hook the Technics back into my system to play the discs that dropout on lyric pages, but that isn't really what I want to do. I have to believe it has something to do with the video buffer in the Denon models that are suspect, as the Technics does not have a video buffer (as far as I know).

 

Mike, I am aware of that. Someone either here or on Home Theater Forum said that his Toshiba player suffers similar dropouts.

Gee, should I get budget DVD-Audio players for my stereo systems just to play the synched-page discs? My wife would love it if I came home from Circuit City with two Panasonic DVD-F85s or something like that.

By the way, in playing Queen The Game on my '3800 from the beginning, I starting observing a few dropouts midway through. When I restarted a track, I had no problems.