I got my new Outlaw RR2160 today!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Jeff Carlson, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:32 AM.

  1. RobCos02330

    RobCos02330 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Mass
    Still use it and love it. I may upgrade to this model if I can find a few reasons to justify it. And there are a few from the looks of it.
     
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  2. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    I'm not a photo taker or uploader, dark room, bad phone camera..[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. JackG

    JackG New Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Agreed with all of the above. Stereophile measurements confirm the clean 4-ohm capability, and also got some extremely good results for the phono stage.
     
  4. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Faceplate is perhaps a bit odd but I think it's an attractive piece overall. If I was looking for a ~100W receiver/integrated this would certainly be on the shortlist.

     
  5. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Forum Resident

    I made an error in the above statement. "I meant to say... are not rated to drive anything less than a 8-Ohm load". This means, that how "GREAT" this receiver is, it has not that much current available, so it can not be operated successfully into a 4-Ohm load.

    I would be quite unhappy, if I paid $1k for a AV receiver and I couldn't even run a 4-Ohm speaker through it (that is, at a generous volume level).

    There are a LOT of very nice speaker options, which require the current, that can be provided into a 4-Ohm load.

    ALL of my equipment, can be driven into a 4-Ohm load (or less). And, I do have some 4-Ohm speakers, which are nice speakers. I am running two rear speakers in parallel, on the the "left" side (for overall more volume in the room). Since they are both 8-Ohm speakers,

    See the photos that I took of the front and the back, post #24. Also see photo of the front of the unit posted by @SquishySounds, in post #23.
     
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  6. JackG

    JackG New Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Screw it, I just ordered one. Checks all my boxes! I won't use the radio (so it's an integrated amp to me as well) but so many integrated amps are getting so light on really useful features.
     
  7. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    We may be the start of a wave, LOL . I saw a few people here on forum searches recommending the 2160( including a thread of my own about considering an Onkyo), and a lot of people vouching for the 2150. I may be the guinea pig, or the first guy on here who bought a 2160 and vouched for it. Search results here got nothing from experienced 2160 owners.

    Note... I can't cite an exact reference, but I believe I read somewhere that when using the 4 ohm capability of the 2160, that you should only be using 2 speakers at a time. Also, I'd be curious to read a comparison of the new unit to the 2150. I actually would of bought the 2150 if it had equal wattage to the new one. I know it isn't much, but I like wattage. I hope you like yours Jack, and look forward to your report. You probably have better gear you've recently used to compare yours to.

    Report of new finding...
    FM receiver picks up FM stations far better than the JVC it replaces.
    There is a typo in the manual which tells user to hit remote button 21 to set presets, when the actual button to hit is 22 which reads on the remote, "memory".
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017 at 7:43 PM
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  8. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    Note:
    I received my digital coax cable today, and hooked up my new Onkyo 7030 with it.
    I've had the Onkyo hooked up since the day the 2160 arrived via analog outs.
    I'm no connoisseur of DACs or even close, but I think there was a little improvement.
    The 7030 is known to have a decent DAC. That said, I'm no connoisseur of DACs, and I know some people spend twice the price or better of this receiver on a DAC alone.
     
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  9. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Forum Resident

    That is correct! If you use two 4-Ohm speakers in parallel, then you would be presenting a 2-Ohm load on the circuit. That is a Bozo No No!

    Think if drinking a slurpy out of a thick straw, not all that easy. Now drink it using two straws, side by side. The force that your mouth is exerting is still the same, but you will be getting twice the amount of slurpy. If you cut the electrical resistance in half, twice as much current MUST flow.

    As I commented before, the majority of receiver's out there state, that they are for 8-Ohm loads only. Meaning, do not even consider using 4-Ohm speakers!

    Now, you can connect two 4-Ohm speakers successfully, if and only IF, you connect them up in series, rather than parallel. This means, from the amp, one wire goes into one connector of the speaker, it comes out the 2nd connector. It then goes to the 1st connector of the 2nd speaker, then from the 2nd connector, it goes back to the amp.

    In electricity, 4-Ohms + 4-Ohms = 8-Ohms.

    Going back to the slurpy straws, where two next to each other, made it easier to get more slurpy in your mouth, if you put one straw after another, in line, it would mean the two straws are now, a single straw, that happens to be, twice as long. Because of this, drinking from the two connected together straws would require twice as much effort, as drinking from a single straw. Twice the resistance.

    Early on, I bought a $99 Sherwood 100-Watt stereo receiver from Amazon, to power the rear speakers. It had the provisions for hooking up a second "B" set of speakers.

    One day, I was thinking about just this issue. This receiver had a protection circuit, where, if the receiver ever went into clipping, instead of cutting off, while the clipping was present, the damned thing would completely shut down.

    I thought, with such a sensitive protection circuit in place, how could it ever handle even two 8-Ohm speakers in parallel. As there was no way, that this economy receiver could ever come close to handling a 4-Ohm load.

    Well, I got out the manual and read the "fine print", which said, "When connecting two sets of speakers, they should both be 16-Ohm speakers."

    Where does anyone see 16-Ohm, low cost home stereo speakers, these days? You don't!

    In public address systems of years past, 16-ohm horn speakers, were commonly used, along with 70-Volt lines and step-down transformer's, to lower the voltage, at the speaker, and increase the current.

    Now, while this little tid bit of information, was presented in the manual, I doubt sincerely, if anybody notice or gave it a second thought.

    I mean, if an amplifier is obviously set up to run two sets of speakers, and they could be run, at the same time, OK fine. As a user, I would simple assume, that all I need is a few feet of speaker wire and an extra set of speakers.

    But Nooooo!
     
  10. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    I'm actually familiar with this when I use two speaker cabinets with guitar amps, just hadn't put it together that it would be the same thing when using both A and B on a solid state stereo.
    The slurpee analogy will stick, very good one. Maybe from now on I'll think of brain freeze whenever hooking up two set of speakers, lol.

    A little misleading on Sherwood's part there. Why even have a A&B together feature if it's more or less useless.

    Upon further review, I believe the 2160 DAC puts out more highs than the Onkyo 7030 does.
    Maybe a little bit more Bass too. I really could be very happy listening either way.
    I really can't say for sure that the 2160 DAC sounds better, but I believe it to be more full range.
    It has me messing with my sub woofer gain.
     
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  11. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Wonder how this would compare to, say, the Yamaha A-S801.
     
  12. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    Good question, that was a unit I heavily considered before deciding on the Outlaw.
    Three things weighed on my mind, the Yamaha doesn't have bass management, and Guttenberg saying nothing in the Outlaws price range sounded as good/FWIW. He went on to say that the Outlaw sounded as good as some units twice the price, again/FWIW. The 3rd thing was recommendations here on the forum from guys who know this stuff far better than I.
    I'm imagine the Yamaha sounds pretty good, I can only vouch for my limited experience with the Outlaw.

    I probably could of saved some Black Friday money on the Yamaha, no such luck with the Outlaw.
    One thing to consider, I've called outlaw twice, and they answer their phones, nice people too.
     
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  13. arglebargle

    arglebargle Active Member

    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    How's the feel of the volume control via remote? Any general complaints / quirks that might not make the reviews? I love my 2150 despite the cheesy remote, the jumpy volume control, and the fact that when muted there is still a slight bleed through of sound. I also found, as mentioned in the Stereophile review, that the 2150 USB input had a tendency toward ground loops. The dac is not great but still frustrating not being able to use it even as a mere convenience. Just curious about the "fit and finish" of the new version along these or any other lines. Have no doubt it sounds great!
     
  14. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    The remotes might be the same? The volume on mine is not jumpy, less so than the old receiver it replaces. I spent about 5 hours listening today, at lot at fairly high levels, which is just plain too much for me. I have ear fatigue at the moment, which is probably just from too much music, but I'm questioning also for a minute the Outlaw DAC's match with my speakers..I'm making no judgment now, after just too much listening.

    I have yet to try a USB device in the front(I own no such devices), but the guy I talked to on the phone today told me I could plug into the back USB connection for audio from my computer, which I may try soon.

    Phono input sounds great but has a lot less gain than the analog or coax inputs, you can still turn up and get plenty loud and full. With my previous receiver there was a less noticeable gain difference.

    I've read criticisms of the remote, but I find I'm getting a handle on it faster than I thought I would.
    Most remotes I come across for anything are cheezy, for me nothing about it sticks out in that way. The biggest quirk for me is my 52 year old eyes reading the buttons without reading glasses and a flashlight.

    My old receiver made noise somewhat when nothing was playing at all, and the more so the more the volume was up....The new receiver at bare minimum makes a lot less noise.
    I really like the thing, and I haven't listened to so much music in ages, and I tend to listen at least some every day, always have.

    Does the 2150 have the speaker EQ? and if so do you use it?
    I reluctant to mess with it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017 at 12:01 AM
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  15. arglebargle

    arglebargle Active Member

    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    It does have similar EQ. I use the bass management but not any of the tone controls. Thanks for taking the time to give your impressions.

    If I'm playing music and mute the 2150, I can hear the music playing faintly. No problem switching from channel to channel. Always wondered if that was a universal flaw or something with my unit. Being in Canada means investigating that through Outlaw would be $$$$$.
     
  16. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    I'll have to get back about the mute switch. I hit it yesterday and didn't notice any faint music playing, but I had other background noise and wasn't listening for faint music. The only reasonable way I could see to test for this would be at a level too loud for this time of night.
    I'll get back.....That said, it doesn't sound like much of a problem regardless, at least wouldn't be for me.
     
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  17. JackG

    JackG New Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Thanks, Jeff. I'd been running an class-D Onkyo A-9555 for about 10 years which recently started to sound terrible - some kind of high-frequency distortion happening along with frequently going into protect mode (checked all cabling). Now I'm running my Emotiva DC-1 DAC/pre-amp directly into a Crown XLS-2000 (also digital) with the analog input on the DC-1 fed by a modded Cambridge 640p phono pre - which has also begun to be really noisy on HOMC like my DL-160.
    I wanted to get back to a non-digital amp, and now find myself needing a new phono stage as well, so the RR1260 really seems ideal for me. And the bass-management opens up so many options (not even a pre-out on the A-9555).
    I really like the KEF Uni-Qs and have been running the Q300 for a year or so. I couldn't pass up the recent pricing on the LS50, though, so those will be here next week with the RR2160. As it happens, two of the RR1260 reviews I read praise this combo, so I'm hoping for some audio nirvana. :)
     
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  18. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Forum Resident

    Those of us in audio, have unique understandings about useless features, don't we?
     
  19. DigMyGroove

    DigMyGroove Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Please do let us know how the combo sounds. I have LS-50s in my main system so am very curious to hear a real world comment on these components synergy.
     
  20. bhazen

    bhazen Re: Member

    Location:
    Newcastle, WA
    I've heard that this receiver is a great low(er) cost solution to drive Magnepans and Vandersteens. High current delivery and all. But not available in shops, right?
     
  21. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Forum Resident

    Outlaw Audio, is an Internet direct marketing company, like Emotiva.
     
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  22. JackG

    JackG New Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Will do!
     
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  23. noladaoh

    noladaoh Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    Love your avatar. Funniest book I ever read.
     
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  24. JackG

    JackG New Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Agreed, more so every time I read it. :)
     
  25. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    I had it cranked up pretty good, I shut of background noise makers, when muting I do not hear faint music....Dead silence outside of my tinnitus.. I can't vouch 100% for silence because of my hearing, but to me silent.

    NOTE: After fully evaluating, I clearly like the sound of the analog outs better on my Onkyo 7030 vs digital into Outlaw. Maybe the Onkyo's DAC is considered less hi fi, but to me it plain sounds better and more natural. I'm convinced I got ear fatigue from digital outs into Outlaw.
    Guess DAC's are a real rathole to jump down.
     
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