I got my new Outlaw RR2160 today!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Jeff Carlson, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. PhilBiker

    PhilBiker sh.tv member number 666

    Location:
    Northern VA, USA
    Wolfson® 192 kHz/24-bit digital-to-analog converter in that Onkyo CD player. That's no slouch. Not a surprise that you would prefer it. I'm sure the Outlaw DACs are excellent as well - it comes down to your preference.
     
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  2. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    I've been listening to vinyl, and it sounds fantastic through the 2160. I know I don't have as good of record player and cartridge/stylus as many SH members, but I have decent quality cd playback to compare to. Phono pre gain isn't that strong, as I've stated, but you just turn it up more and it gets the job done, IMO sounds fantastic. This with a Pioneer PL400, in which I've never had serviced, outside of (stylus changes)I recently installing an At3472se stylus. I'm so inspired by the sound of this setup, that I'm pondering future record player expenditures. That said, this old thing sounds so good to me, I may buy second used pl400 at some point. Though I'd like something with more adjustment capability, Technics 1200.. Eyeopener hearing my vinyl sound this good, 2160 phono pre sounds way better than JVC did.

    I think it's clearly better with the Onkyo analog outs, and it's hard for me to believe many people would disagree, hearing side by side. I read the "Giant killer" thread here on the Onkyo, and it's what sold me. I just wish the Onkyo was a better transport, in terms of playing scratched or crappy CDs (I like buying used CDs). It does sound great though IMO.
    I will note though that Wolfson DAC as a consideration in the future for cd players, I doubt I get many years out of the Onkyo..

    I should have my Denon tape deck back today or tomorrow from repair, and I already know it's gonna sound good...
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
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  3. Tullman

    Tullman I prefer analog

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Not me. I am in tight quarters as well. It's a really PIA to re-wire or add components.
     
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  4. Jerry

    Jerry Grateful Gort Staff

    Location:
    New England
    I had the same feeling about the phono pre gain in my Outlaw 2150, having to turn it to 2pm or more to get good, loud volume. Then I read that you can just flip the MM/MC switch to adjust the input gain, get more volume without sacrificing tonal characteristics. (It might be cartridge dependent, though.) I was told that the Outlaw's MM/MC slide switch is simply a gain switch, with no loading issues. But then again, what he hell do I know?
     
  5. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    That stands to reason, it being a gain switch. I set mine to MM because of my cartridge being MM. A quick google search reveals that MC needs more gain, so there you have it. I appears you are correct, and thanks for the tip.

    I just got my tape deck back from repair, and it's similar in the need to turn the Volume up quite a bit to get a decent loud volume. This with the decks output gain close to pegged. I'm getting the volume I need without noise, and it sounds good. I'll roll with it.
     
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  6. JackG

    JackG Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Got mine yesterday but won't get to hook it up till the weekend most likely. Feels solid!

    Re: the phono inputs. They seems strange in that the MC setting only seems to add gain and not change loading. Almost as if MC is more suited to HOMC than LOMC. In any event, the MM section showed excellent measurements in the Stereophile review and that's what I'll be using (with a DL-103r and step-up transformer).
     
  7. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    Cool Jack, look forward to your insight once you get it going. Shocked me when Fed ex got mine to me two days early. I was expecting to sign for it, and they just left it on my porch.
    Outside of a knowledgeable person saying the measurements are good, they wouldn't mean much to me at this point. To me the sound doesn't lie, and it sounds great IMO on the MM setting.

    I'm starting to find the 55hz speaker eq setting useful, with trebly recordings. In particular I'm referring to REM Green on cassette.
     
  8. JackG

    JackG Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Finally got everything set up yesterday morning and played with it all day to do a bit of break-in. Hope you don't mind me tagging along on your thread, Jeff! It's really tough to give a controlled component comparison to what I had previously since I replaced everything (amp/pre/DAC/phono stage/speakers) at once. I will say this is the best sound I've had at home and I've been sinking money into audio since the late 80's. I love progress! I'm using the onboard DAC and phono stage. On top of the 2160 you can see my circa-2009 Bob's Devices SUT (for my DL-103r) as well as my cherished Logitech Squeezebox Touch for (bit perfect) streaming of local FLAC/ALAC files as well as Tidal.

    I find the 55Hz EQ is perfect for the LS50 - wonderful. I have a few subs to try, and the analog bass-management of the Outlaw was a major draw for me, but I've not had the urge at all to hook one up, so punchy and full is this combo. I actually found myself gravitating toward more digital than analog last night - it all sounded so warm and present. I think, also, this comparatively high-resolution setup is revealing my cart may be getting a little long-in-the-tooth (2010 or so). Time to hit eBay...

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Any more details you can provide would be fantastic. Have you tried auditioning other DACs or phono preamps through the Outlaw? A comparison would be pretty cool.

    Lastly, your piano's strings don't vibrate harmonically to notes played during playback?
     
  10. JackG

    JackG Member

    Location:
    NJ

    I hear y'a, not much useful comparison info above. As noted, I installed the Outlaw and it replaced my DAC and phono stage, so I've only heard the onboard ones with the Outlaw. My original plan was to replace things in stages, to get a feel for the changes at each point, but this is my busy time of year and I didn't know when I'd get the chance to put lots of time into it. So I took the chance, while the kids/wife were still asleep, to get it all done without answering a single question. ;) Only DAC I have is my Emotiva Stealth DC-1. I'll do a comparison at some point, but it sounds so good now I'll leave it be for a bit. And I'm sure the piano strings do get going! But this is the best-sounding room in the house by far. I have a (small/concrete) mancave in the basement with a full 7.2.4 Dolby Atmos HT setup, and I've tried to use it for music, but it just doesn't sound very good, especially in the midbass. The "secondary" placement for the speakers (because they're kind of in the way when set up for active listening) in this room is actually on the piano. You should hear it then!
     
  11. NoDad

    NoDad New Member

    Location:
    Santa Rosa CA
    I am also considering the RR2160. Stereophile said it got quite hot. Have you noticed this?
     
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  12. Nice. :edthumbs:
     
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  13. JackG

    JackG Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Stereophile says it was quite hot after running for an hour at 1/3 power. That seems pretty strenuous and mine got barely warm to the touch in use all day (I did test it a few times during the day having noted their comments).
     
  14. NoDad

    NoDad New Member

    Location:
    Santa Rosa CA
    Thanks for letting me know. I thought that might be the case. Just wanted to verify.
     
  15. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    I'm glad you posted in this thread Jack, was looking forward to your review, been checking the alerts.
    Also I'm glad you like the unit, and the word "punchy" has been on my mind to describe the sound as well, but I listen to a lot of music that fits that description to begin with, so I didn't go there. It does produce a lively sound. Interesting you're liking the onboard DAC, which could be something to do with your speakers too, but probably personal taste. I used mine for a couple days before switching back to analog outs on my Onkyo, and immediately liked it better. I have zero doubt that it sounds great without a sub, but haven't even tried it that way. The amp sounds so good out of the gate, I couldn't get myself to mess with settings for a few days. Speaker EQ settings are great for trebly recording or low volumes at times.

    I've only noticed mine getting slightly warm as well. This is not an issue I'm concerned with.
    In my small space I doubt I'd ever play it loud enough for long enough to make it an issue.
    Even then I think I'd be far more concerned about blowing a tweeter, having read on Klipsch forum about the happening to some people with RF25's. It seems to me, they built the amp to be played hard.

    I look forward to more Jack, sub, other dac's, etc..
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  16. JackG

    JackG Member

    Location:
    NJ
    I'm really enjoying the MM stage. Sounds great with my DL-103r+SUT, DL-160, and Audio-Technica AT-MONO3/LP. And quiet! Even with the paltry 1.2mV output of the latter, and consequent high MV level, I've got to put my ear right up to the speaker to hear any noise.
     
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  17. Nonpoint

    Nonpoint New Member

    Location:
    Raleigh
    Jack/Jeff Great input on the 2160. I just picked one up myself. Question - have either of you been able to connect a computer via usb? I cannot get my mac to recognize the outlaw DAC (no issues on any of my other dacs/integrateds in the past)
     
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  18. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    I just ordered a cable today to try using a computer to the usb input on the back.

    What little I know is the following, with questions that arise

    Ethernet input on back is for internet radio. (I was thinking about using a wireless receiver for this purpose, but don't know what to buy.)

    USB on back for hooking up to a pc... (My laptop has 2 USB 2.0 jacks, so I'm hoping it'll work straight away)

    USB on front for USB flash drive type devices. (I have a hard drive on a broken pc, loaded with flac files and might be interested in putting them on flash drives. I don't know if this is possible or cost effective, or really where to begin, LOL. 1st I need to rid the hard drive of potential viruses. I'll have to talk to a tech about this stuff I guess.


    Page 26 of the manual may have some info that can help.
    I don't know if all USB ports send signals or not, or if somehow we have to bypass the computers DAC. Outlaw does answer phones for this stuff, or you could post a question on the Outlaw forum.
    The Outlaw Saloon | Forums powered by UBB.threads™
     
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  19. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    Nonpoint, report your findings if you would USB and otherwise, like hearing what other people think of this thing, and am open to tips.
     
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  20. JackG

    JackG Member

    Location:
    NJ
    I didn't try a computer, but I did hook up initially via USB to my Squeezebox Touch (USB audio enabled via 3rd-party firmware). It worked, but every time I chose another input on the 2160 and came back to USB, the Squeezebox would tell me there was no DAC connected and I'd need to reboot the SBT to see the Outlaw again. I think this is a more a quirk of the SBT than the Outlaw, but it never happened with my Emotiva DC-1 DAC. So somehow it sees the Outlaw DAC differently.

    In any event, I'm now hooked up via coax with no issues at all. I'm limited to 96/24 (vs 192/24 for USB), but since I only have one 192/24 demo file, it's academic.
     
  21. Nonpoint

    Nonpoint New Member

    Location:
    Raleigh
    Thanks guys for the replies. I still have not had luck getting a connection. Outlaw, with their great customer service, is giving me a call back to see what they can do....so I will post what I find out.

    Jeff, in my experience it should be plug and play with a mac. For more context I use Audirvana (highly recommended) as my player and the dac has always been picked up right away.

    In the meantime, I have a RR2150 on hand (plus a Sonica Dac) and have been comparing the amplifier sections of the old vs new. Some good listening ahead.
     
  22. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    I'm *quite* curious about the sonic differences between the RR2150 vs the RR2160. Please let us know what you find after doing some extensive testing. On paper, the sole differences *seems* to be an extra 10 watts/channel and a couple of extra features. Just wondering how it's basic stereo sound differs since even the old model has bass management.
     
  23. Nonpoint

    Nonpoint New Member

    Location:
    Raleigh
    I am getting a new rr-2160 in the next couple days for more listening but in my time with both I would say your thoughts are pretty accurate. The 2160 build appears better (e.g., metal vs plastic headphone and aux input) and the new features are quite nice (dual sub outs, new dac with quite a few inputs, etc.) as you could guess. However, I wouldn't say the 2160 blows the 2150 away in terms of SQ. I primarily compared the amplifier sections and if anything, the volume control was a main difference. The digital volume control on the on the 2160 offers very precise adjustments (maybe too precise for some as it takes awhile to decrease/increase volume) while the 2150 gain/volume goes from 0 to ear bleeding levels really quick. The difference actually made me think the 2150 sounded better (i.e., loudness, tough to match both by ear) at first until I used an SPL meter to level set.

    After matching, I struggled to hear much if any difference playing the same source. Perhaps this will change as I listen more.
     
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  24. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    That is quite interesting. Outlaw is selling RR2150 B-Stock at $650. If what you say is true, anybody wanting the sound quality without the need for those extra features could get an even better bargain!
     
  25. JackG

    JackG Member

    Location:
    NJ
    Nonpoint - sounds like they are swapping the unit for you due to the USB issue?

    I'm really quite taken with mine and can see it as the centerpiece of my setup for some time to come. And the bass-management is so useful and well-executed, makes all these integrateds that lack even a basic pre-out seem amateurish.
     
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