I got whupped by an Ebay creep yesterday

Its an auction,high bid wins rather you bid first or last.

 

I really don't get your point of view, Eric. You seem to think that a long-standing high bid entitles that bidder to some sort of proprietorship of the item and that snipers "steal" it. There is nothing to steal; the item belongs to the seller until the auction is over.

I don't use sniping services myself, but I don't see how my manually placing my high bid early in the auction is ethically superior to Ed Bishop entering a similar bid at about the same time with a sniping service. If Ed's automated "snipe" beats me, that means he entered a higher bid -- long before the auction was close to ending.

 

Anyone who has lost at the last millisecond can tell you that autosniping is no guarantee of winning; far from it! Because so many use autosnipe programs, it still comes down to luck, really.

As for the manual sniping, I do that if it's a record of special interest to me, and I want to be there...autosniping is employed only when I know I'm not going to be around, and no chance of being there due to other obligations. Then, well, you do what you gotta do.

But you continue to miss the point: if this were unethical or illegal, eBay wouldn't allow it. It's their house, their rules; fair really has nothing to do with it. As for 'cruising,' what does that mean? I never, ever place a bid until almost near the end, simply because it makes no logical or economic sense to do so. I consider anyone who bids early a bloody fool for potentially wasting some of my money, since to bid early is to absurdly jack up a price that could have been much lower. Which is why I also tend to avoid such auctions, where there may be either shill bidders or idiot novices, and both are noxious...

 

I find I generally pay more if I bid early in an auction. Sniping is the way to go if you have time to watch the end of auctions. I even snip via my phone when at work

 

In live auctions, a proxy can be employed if the buyer is unable to attend.... same thing isn't it?

I think the real problem is expectations; people who don't understand how auctions work get upset about sniping.

At live auctions, some people don't bid until the very end, and of course, there are proxies as well...and I'll bet that some proxies were sniping.

Auctions have always had sniping and proxies, so it makes sense that ebay would have them too... that really should be the end of blaming ebay for allowing snipers etc.

If someone feels sniping is unfair, than they feel auctions as a whole are unfair because that's how they work, period; end of story.

Ethical and unethical become moot, when it's proven that the nature of auctions includes proxies and sniping.... therefore it is what is, take it or leave it.

 

What I don't get is why the sniping enthusiasts here continue to disparage those who don't snipe and accuse them of jacking up the prices foolishly. Bidding early and often is just as acceptable a way of participating in auctions as sniping and using automated programs, isn't it? Is there something unethical about jacking up the prices for snipers when it's only a by-product of wanting to win the items for themselves?

 

Yeah, and belittling them too!

 

Why would you pay more. 3 days left. Bidding is up to $20. You think $50 is the most you would pay. You bid $50. You are high bidder at $22.50. 3 days and the winning bid is $35.00. You win it.

 

I do it often. It's a strategy that has been proven effective for me to get an item at a lower price than the BIN that was posted. I also snipe, so according to your world, I don't know which part of me should feel worse. Funny thing is that I feel great that I end up getting collectable CD's and kids toys at much less than most other people.

 

On hot items, let's say a mint unsealed DCC Aqualung cd, you bid a high bid of $150, pushing the normal bid up to say $50. Three days left.

Next guy, a day later, sees you are the high bidder at $50, and bids his highest, which is $110...now the bid is $112 for the first guy. Second guy really wants it, doesn't bother to search to see if there's more avaiable for sale, so he bids again until he gets to see his name up there at $152.50.... and there's two days left. He makes one final bid hoping to fend off last minute people....but first guy comes back at the end and wins it for $160.01

I've seen that scenario quite a bit...with the end result being the cd selling higher than normal because two guys allowed each other to figure out what their "high" bids were....

 

FWIW, eBay expressly states in its buyers' help section that sniping "is part of the eBay experience":


Last-minute bidding
Placing a high bid in the closing seconds of an auction-style listing is called “sniping” within the eBay Community. Sniping is part of the eBay experience, and all bids placed before a listing ends are valid - even if they're placed one second before the listing ends.

To help avoid disappointment, ensure that the maximum bid you enter on the item page is the highest price that you're willing to pay. The eBay bidding system automatically increases your bid up to the maximum price you specify, so entering a higher maximum may help prevent you from being outbid in the closing seconds of a listing.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/outbid-ov.html

 

Well done, couldn't have put it better myself.

 

Now you have the first guy coming back from 150 to bid again. If you put your highest bid in and let it go you either get it for what you wanted or less or not. Guess it just depends how hot the item is. I've won 95% of what i wanted without paying more then i wanted by just bidding the most i'm willing to pay and most the time its less then my max bid. Maybe i'm doing it wrong.

 

Cant we just say " all's fair in love and snipe". I have been sniped. Ive sniped and won. Ive been crushed like an ant. I have done the defeated dance and cussed like Fred Flintstone. and I have ran away laughing in the other bidders face. yes.. yes I have.I have even walked away like a cat hitting a sliding glass door and said " bah.. I didnt really want it anyway. "all the while licking my paws to comfort myself.

Look- its all part of the game. It isnt like there was one made of anything that most of us are bidding on. It'll all come back around. Sometimes cheaper and sometimes higher. Plus with me there are so many things I want I just move on to the next item. I have a hunch its the same with most.

 

Eric,

I certainly see both sides of this debate, but since ebay's rules allow it that would seem to be the last word.

Ethically, you see this as a different matter. That's fine, but I do have a problem with your tone. You say that you think it's reprehensible, but then go on to say that those who snipe have convinced themselves that sniping is acceptable and that you would never "stoop so low." You're conflating your judgments with facts and assumptions. I manually snipe and have never felt the need to convince myself that it's ok. How would it seem to you if I said, "People who are against sniping must be living in the dark ages. I'm surprised they even have computers." You might justifiably feel as though I have taken one thing I know about you and used it to paint an unfair picture of you.

Those are the rules set up by ebay. If you don't like those rules and the people that follow them, you're free to abstain from using ebay. But when you begin insulting the people who do follow those rules is when I start to have a problem with it.

 

Nobody has claimed I have "insulted" them. I think that sniping is unethical and I would not stoop so low to do it. Do I think that people who snipe are engaing in unethical activity? Yes. Would I engage in that sort of activity? No. However, these people think what they are doing is perfectly OK--it comports with their own moral code. So why should they be offended by my opinion? Seemingly, they aren't. Nor should they be--I have made no value judgments about them as people. I don't like some of their activities, but that doesn't mean I don't like *them*.

Heck, I bet that some people don't like the fact that I "steal" their actions by purchasing something as BIN before they have had a chance to bid on it (or even--gasp--snipe it) at a lower price. But oh well, c'est la vie.

 

I'm not sure that I agree with you! I frequently make derisory bids in the hope that I will get away with it. I've picked up many bargains this way.

By way of example three Venture's LPs in lovely condition - they play perfectly - arrived today, princely bid of 99 cents.

 

Rats! That's what I should've said.

 

Thanks for posting this

Case closed!!

 

I guess it's just the fact that there's competition that bothers you.

 

No, competition is fine. Read my posts above to see what bothers me.

 

got out sniped on the die beatles lp last week. cried for a couple of days but finally got over it. that's life on ebay. that's why i like to buy my stuff on the forum. no hassle + you know you're getting quality stuff.keep listing that vinyl!

 

I've read all your posts-- you're extremely bothered by people doing things that are A) perfectly legal and within eBay guidelines, and B) very common. You've decided for yourself that these things are "unethical" and, because you aren't prepared to compromise your ethics (and therefore win auctions), that the eBay game is somehow stacked against you.

 

At a live in-person auction, the bidding doesn't end until people stop bidding. There's no hard-and-fast time limit. If the auctioneer calls, "Going once, going twice..." and someone pops in with another bid, then everyone has a chance to keep bidding, again until everyone else just gives up. So it's not really a fair comparison. Sniping works precisely because there's a definite deadline, and people take advangage of the fact that their software will wait until the absolute last second to submit their bid. So, in that regard, it's a bit unfair, since it boils down to who has the best software to snipe with.

But again, my theory is that eventually everyone (or most everyone) will get this type of software, and it'll all cancel itself out and end up as a "silent auction" situation, with everyone waiting until the last second to reveal their bids.

 

Until I started reading this post I was unaware software even existed for sniping. I have been very successful sniping manually. Don't get me wrong, I too have lost out on some items I have been desperate for, but I just think back to how many items I have sniped from others, so will continue to do it manually. That's half of the fun.